AVANT GOTHICA WITH VSA

We’re excited to share an interview from our Athleisure Mag Summit Series which gives you an indepth look at a brand that we have had the pleasure of including in our photoshoots from celeb covers, model editorials, and even wearing it personally with a number of looks. Virgins Saints and Angels is a brand that includes a number of accessories that tell an array of stories and adds visual texture to whatever your style may be!

We sat down to talk with Cheryl “Finn” Finnegan, Founder and Chief Creative Officer of Virgins Saints and Angels. We talk about the origins of the line, the assortment, her design process, and essentials you need as you begin to build your own collection.

ATHLEISURE MAG: I have to say it is such a pleasure to be able to chat with you finally for this Athleisure Mag Summit Series Virtual Event! This series allows us to talk with great fashion brands that I know our readership and community should know about. Having them hear from the brand, learning about their assortment, and what we can expect from them in upcoming seasons! As you know, I have been a fan of your brand for the past 2 decades from wearing it personally when I’m out and about, for TV segments and also including it in our photoshoots for Athleisure Mag!

In talking with you right now, I am wearing the first ring that I ever received from your collection as that in itself is a full circle moment as it was the first piece that I wrote about for a blog that I started back in 2004 and how was I to know that in 2011, my boyfriend who I am still with who is a Co-Founder of Athleisure Mag, would not only buy this ring without knowing that I knew about it, but he ordered it through Ylang23 which is a retailer that I knew and would talk to off and on when I was working on my site! They knew me and thought it was such serendipity and then around that time, I was in Santo Domingo designing my collab line with Sebago as we were were preparing to launch the collection on HSN and I ended up meeting the leather team that supplied leather for your belts because their company was supplying the leather for my shoes!

CHERYL FINNEGAN: Oh my gosh thank you so much and I just think the world of you!

AM: Same! It’s a brand that I have loved ever since I knew about it, it’s what I wear every single day and I love everything about it. I just want to say thank you for creating it and your aesthetic is something I appreciate and I really love that you are taking the time!

CF: Of course!

AM: So prior to launching Virgins Saints and Angels, I’d love to know about your background because I know you are a fashion veteran as you worked in marketing for Levi Strauss and Co.

CF: Yes, I have been working in fashion since I was probably 16!

AM: Same!

CF: Yeah, starting out in the local department store and moving on from there. I worked with Levi Strauss and I had the best title on the planet! I was called an Image Consultant!

AM: Ok, that is the best title!

CF: It is the best title! I loved handing that card out! So, I was in charge of going out and checking out boutiques. I was searching out for places for us to be in. So I was always on the cusp of what was happening. So when I moved down to San Miguel I originally started doing these plastic woven bags. They were super cute and I reinvented the whole plastic bag in the mercado and I had to brand it because I am a marketing person.

The branding in these plastic bags – I couldn’t sew anything in there and it was cheesy to glue something in there. So I had the weavers who were prisoners, they did that job in the prison system in Mexico – I had them weave the little ring in there and I did a key fob.

AM: Ah I’m seeing where the DNA of VSA came from the minute you said that and now I know why the brand also has key fobs!

CF: Then that key fob turned into a belt buckle which then turned into a ring and then a rosary and that is how it all began!

AM: Yeah, I always wondered what was the piece that sparked everything else – this is fascinating because it’s an extensive assortment that has an array of pieces that speak to each other inside of the collections as well as those adjacent to it, but I couldn’t figure out where it started and what the root was.

CF: Right! I was making these little itty bitty key fobs and I had a sweet little logo under resin and then Fred Segal was buying the bags. But one day he said to me, “do you think that you could just sell me some of the key chains?” I thought that was great because the bags take up major bulk right?

AM: Yes!

CF: So most of the cost of the bag was the shipping. So I thought, I could ship 100 key chains in a little box. So then I started putting in the religious imagery in them. Then I had cute little hangtags on them so it would be Adam and Eve and the cute little tag would say, “They always look better than they taste” or something fun about the Virgin of Miracles or whatever. I had these cute little tags on them and Fred Segal went crazy over them! I was just selling them as fast as they got in and then eventually, it turned into a belt buckle. Literally, I was walking down the street in LA with my belt buckle and Laurence Fishburne’s (Matrix franchise, John Wick franchise, The Amateur) relative stopped me and asked me what I was wearing and I told her that I had just made this belt buckle and it was my prototype. She said that she had to have one and I just took it off my body and I sold it to her!

AM: Oh my God, that is insane!

CF: Then I thought, I think that I could be onto something!

AM: The pieces are so iconic. When we had Lala Kent from Vanderpump Rules as our cover for our MAY ISSUE #29 in 2018, she wore one of your crowns for the cover.

CF: Yes – insane.

AM: It’s just amazing the responses that you get when you’re wearing them even in the wild. On days where I’m running between editor’s appointments and showrooms and I’m just rocking leggings and a top but I have my VSA which takes it to another level, I do get stopped and you have mini conversations about them and it’s so fun to engage with people in that way.

What is your sourcing process like? I do like the elements in the pieces an San Benito and then the Magdalena – where do you get all of these things from?

CF: Well inspiration is local, I mean you’re in Mexico. When I first got here, I didn’t get it. I come from the Midwest –

AM: Same!

CF: Right, your religion is private.

AM: Same! That’s how I was raised too!

CF: I’m from near Chicago.

AM: I’m from Indianapolis originally and obviously, I’m in NY now. But I totally get it. Like growing up there you’re religious, but it’s not something that I would just throw out in conversation.

CF: It’s reserved right?

AM: 1000%

CF: In Mexico, Guadalupe is on every other tattooed man – it’s just very visible. I found it interesting and then I started looking into it more and then I started adding in this Gothic kitsch. I was definitely more of a punk goth chic when I was young. I had the spiky hair and black that was my thing. I definitely have a bit of those elements in every piece that I do. The Magdalena was that ability to wear a rosary and to wrap it around. I particularly love the belt buckles and to me, those were it! That was my go-to piece that I was known for and every celebrity would wear the belt buckle and be pictured in it and you would see it! An earring you may not see necessarily, a ring you may not see, but a belt buckle – you’re going to see that.

AM: I do love the Gothica style of it. I always say that there is this noir/macabre feeling in the pieces that are pleasantly moody where it’s not fully leaning in that direction but you get that essence. I’m not a preppy girl by any means, although I growing up that is how I dressed – hello Midwest. But, I love that I feel when I wear them that it grounds the look, it gives an edge to it. It feels approachable, it has visual texture, and there are always great conversations around the pieces and it goes on for minutes! You see a cross, then there is an interesting design, or some other fun element.

CF: I know! It does kind of push the limits! I will never forget when I was in San Francisco, I was in a store and a woman came in and she told me that her parents had a dining room and it was all in black velvet and had Jesus and Mary in it as they were very religious. This woman was wearing her Virgin of Guadalupe belt buckle and she felt kind of dirty wearing it there – ha! It definitely pushes something.

AM: It does push the limits but you have created this world from the jewelry to the campaign imagery that you put around it that creates a cohesive story and what it means to be in that space. Sometimes our shoots end up popping up so quickly that I may not have time to reach out to your team to put a request in for something that is in a new collection or an archive piece and I will shop my personal VSA collection to bring it to set as it adds that element of drama.

CF: Oh honey! We’re so happy to work with you!

AM: Of course sometimes when there is a tight window you have to make do! You had a cameo set that we pulled a couple of years ago and I had requested various pieces from it as I wasn’t sure how we were going to have it with our model and by the time I saw the looks, I realized that they all needed to be worn together as we shot it at the Algonquin Hotel here in NYC.

CF: Oh yes! I loved that!

AM: Your team was great to work with to get that going. And between the dress and the layers of statement necklaces and the earrings this Cameo Noir moment just really came together. My team was like, wait all of this together and I’m like the whole thing!

CF: You’re too cute!

AM: Where do you start in your design process? Being where you are in Mexico, walking around definitely must be something for the senses and crazy inspiration.

CF: My new collection is just coming out and it’s called Brigid. So, Brigid took me back to my original roots. So when I was first introduced to San Benito, I was in Ireland. I saw the Celtic cross and I remembered being in San Benito and seeing the San Benito Monastery. That was the Celtic cross and I have Celtic roots. So Brigid takes me back to the first trip in Ireland when I was first introduced to that Celtic cross in a town called Kildare. Killdare happens to be the town where Brigid is. I wanted to do something that was very Irish and I started looking back into it and the famous Celtic cross in Ireland is in Kildare and Brigid, she is the only Goddess who is also a Saint. So she is a pagan Goddess and a Saint at the same time.

AM: Interesting!

CF: She is all 4 elements. She is Air, Water, Fire, and Earth.

AM: Now it makes sense with the images that you sent knowing that!

CF: Exactly right? So, I’m tying things back to my Celtic roots but yet, it is so very Mexican inspired for the pieces. All of my pieces are handmade!

AM: That’s another thing that I love about your brand! It already comes out with that heritage aspect to it due to how it is crafted. It is polished not like something that is mass produced, but in a way where you feel that an artisan made it and it is passed down to you. Every time I put it on – even if it is a new piece or one I haven’t worn in a while, you have this feeling that is warm and as if it something that you have had for years.

CF: You need to come down here and come down to the workshop!

AM: I want to come and see this, I would probably freak out!

CF: All of my clients that come to the workshop, they always say, “you don’t charge enough for your pieces.” They are blown away!

AM: I have to say that I have always felt that your pieces are a great price point; however, you have all the people that are making it by hand –

CF: It’s a lot! I have the same workers for 25 years.

AM: Really?

CF: Yes, the same people! They are the best of what they do. They love when I bring a magazine photo in and show them. They love seeing Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus or a number of the people that have worn their brand. They all have their little alters at their work stations. They really put a lot of love in what they do.

AM: When you make a collection each season like Brigid, how long is that process from concept to finish?

CF: It’s a lot. It can take – Brigid is coming out on Feb 1st and what we do is that we always wear the pieces beforehand. So after awhile in wearing a piece, you can see how it feels and you may say, this isn’t right. So we have to change and we have 2 pieces that we are right now in the process of getting ready. For Brigid, we have been working since Oct on this. It takes a long time and as a designer, I’m working all of the time. You don’t just stop your brain from being creative right? Every time you are looking at something, you’re saying, how does this translate?

It’s very interesting and I love it. I sit with the workers, I don’t hand them a sketch. I sit with them while we are making the pieces. I don’t have my cell phone with me or my laptop, I sit with them and I say, let’s do this and let’s do that. Then, they give me ideas, and we do it together.

AM: I did the same thing with my shoes as there was so much to learn by being able to talk with the artisans that have been doing this for years. I was able to share my vision, how I wanted the leathers arranged and then to watch them put it together, offer directions and adjustments to make a beautiful collection that I sold on HSN. So being in Santo Domingo and to have that experience really opened my eyes to craftsmanship. They knew that product and it was a pleasure to work with them. They knew that leather better than anybody, they knew about the last and so many components of the shoe.

CF: Yes! I have to say that it is very different than going to a factory in China where they are throwing things in a machine and spitting it out. There was a period where there was a copy cat of mine and they were making it in China and you could tell that it wasn’t the same.

AM: You knew the difference! Just the weight alone. It always surprises me that the pricing of your collection is so reasonable and then when you think about the hand made element as well, it’s amazing that your prices aren’t higher.

CF: People know once you start wearing it and playing with it. Our pieces in addition to being hand made are also hand polished. In this industry, when people say handmade – what does that mean because there could be elements that are and others on a machine. I do such a volume that I am fortunate that I am able to keep the prices at where they’re at. That definitely helps and we have a nice kind of flow to our factory – I don’t call it a factory I call it an atelier. We have about 13 people who work with us and every piece has its own hand antiquing. I don’t like that usually in jewelry when you antique it, they throw it in a black pot and they tumble it. I don’t like that. I like to brush it on by hand and I tell them where I want it to be more intense and where I want it to be less intense.

AM: Oh wow that explains something else I have always wondered. It’s yet another little detail that I am learning about you and the brand! I always noticed that it wasn’t the same all over in terms of my rings as I have more in this category than other portions of your line. So I will see certain parts of the ring will look one way or another when I am turning my hand or picking something up. I just thought that my skin was making it do that!

CF: There is a designer that wore my cuff to death in the shower, swimming in the ocean and I ran into her in NY and I said Nicole, would you like for me to replate that for you? It was black! And she was like, it’s my natural patina piece – my personal patina! I was like ok!

AM: Oh wow!

Who would you say is the VSA customer if you had to put a person in a category or categories?

CF: I know! There is the woman that I think she is that is this punk rock cool chick. But it’s so difficult because we have people from Miley Cyrus to Maria Shriver to Marilyn Manson. It is the most bizarre brand. A marketing company will come to me and say who is your customer and I really know that we are all over the board. We are being included in the upcoming season of Euphoria –

AM: Oh yeah, that’s huge! It’s their 3rd season!

CF: Yeah and they’re using my pieces all over! Yeah! So I have that kind of client and I have no idea as I have never seen that show.

AM: I did try to watch it but I feel like the show the cast when it first started they were like 16 but they’re definitely show the cast going through it. They’re drinking, doing drugs, navigating relationships. For me, watching younger kids do that isn’t for me versus seeing the same thing done with adults. But it is an acclaimed show and I know people really love it! I mean Zendaya (Challengers, Dune franchise, Spider-Man franchise), Colman Domingo (The Four Seasons, Fear the Walking Dead, Sing Sing) – so now I feel like I need to get on that train.

CF: I know! I have to watch it.

AM: So now that VSA is in it, I have to support it.

CF: You’re not going to see Zendaya in it but it’s another main character –

AM: Could be Sydney Sweeney (White Lotus, The Housemaid, Eden) as I know she is in it.

CF: I don’t know, but the main character is going to be wearing a signature rosary as that is her thing. You’ll see a belt buckle and you will see everything. I don’t want to say too much but I am excited.

I have also had a number of programs contact me as there is this whole witchy aesthetic that has been going on lately. When VSA started, Passion of the Christ came out, The Da Vinci Code so there was a lot of the religious thing, then we moved into Disney because there was Once Upon a Time –

AM: Yes! Loved that show and the pieces for that were huge as that was such a major collab with Disney!

CF: I fit in with those things personally. Then things got a little boring and now there is this whole witch thing going on. So there’s a movie called Forbidden Fruit that they chose my pieces for and then there is this new series that they are filming in Canada right now and I sent them 150 pieces. They went crazy for everything!

AM: I would love to see them in White Lotus, I don’t believe they are in production just yet. When they were filming in Thailand for S3, I was reached out to by someone working with them and they were looking for designers to partner with. I don’t know if it was for the show or for promotional items that would flow coming off of that and I told them then that they should talk with you and that I would be happy to connect the 2.

CF: Love it! I will tell you that my team is so professional and you have worked with them so many times. We say that we will have it on X date – we do, we have the return label, everything is packaged clean, we do what we say we will do. I don’t know how many people in the industry do that.

AM: Not a lot! Many times I have the request with a buffer and you’ll have some people still missing that window – so crazy!

CF: They’re kind of taken back at how easy it is to work with us!

AM: Oh yes, you guys package it nicely and everything is just ready to go. I find that in this business even though some people don’t do things to standard, when you are not a massive brand or with a massive firm or whatever the case may be, you have to be more on point and easy to work with so that you can continue to navigate and I always appreciate when people take care and pride in what they do! It’s about the details and the follow through!

CF: I also have this immense archive!

AM: I was just going to ask you about that!

CF: It’s massive – it’s crazy! So this program called The Body that is coming out, they shared the storyline and I told them that I would pick all of the pieces so they could give me direction. I gave them my mood board with all of the pieces. The pieces I showed them were not on the website. I can just pull from the archive and it’s so fun and most people don’t know that I do head pieces – I have thousands! I’m not going to put them on my website. People don’t necessarily want to spend a $1,000 on a headpiece that they will wear once.

AM: But it is there should they want it!

CF: It’s been so much fun and I can’t believe that I have had this life.

AM: Your photoshoots are productions in themselves and I get it as we do a number of them here at Athleisure Mag. What is that like as they are immersive and they have such a storyline and you had one that always comes to mind which was a Last Supper motif.

CF: I know! That one was so controversial. I would have surprise photoshoots with my team and that one was a team photoshoot.

AM: Oh wow!

CF: They didn’t know it was going to happen we were just eating like we normally do. I do them at my house, so I have the MUA sneaking in, the costume guy, the hair guy – everyone is setting up. So I let everyone know this is it – the Last Supper photoshoot. I have Mariana there with her long black hair naked, covering her breasts with the black tears and huge belt buckle. We have 12 women dressed super elegantly with the hairdos and I wanted a crystal turkey – the food had to be crystalized! We have so much fun with these shoots and they are all at the office or at my house!

AM: I always enjoy seeing your campaigns, photoshoots, and videos. There have been times that I have used them in terms of creating my moodboards for a shoot or concept. It’s art and it has everything in there.

CF: I go outside of it. When I do Marie Antoinette, she’s going to have the white makeup on and we’re going to go all out. Forget about the hybrid! I’m the real deal!

AM: What do you feel are the 3 key pieces that someone should have if they are just starting our their VSA collection?

CF: Ok, well for certain my Magdalena which is a multi-beaded piece that is super versatile and the first necklace that I designed! It’s still in the line and still my #1 piece. Lady Gaga wears it, Madonna wears it, everyone! That was the necklace that Britney Spears put me on the map. Then when she was going through that period of time where it was about Save Britney Spears was all over the Internet. She decided that she was going to pose naked on the Internet with only my necklace – she is like Maria Magdalena reincarnated. Lady Gaga wore it for her half time show and people choose to wear my pieces during key moments. Miley Cyrus wore that necklace for forever. It means something to them.

I would definitely say a VSA ring. I would also say a belt buckle. These are great statements. A lot of people think that with a belt buckle you have to have a skinny waist – no you don’t. You can wear your belt buckle high on the waist if you want our buckles are big it’s somehow an illusion!

AM: I tell people it’s a look that should be incorporated.

CF: Those 3 items the Magdalena the beaded necklace, the buckle, and the ring. My rings are statement pieces as you know – don’t be afraid of them!

AM: I say that too. You get used to wearing them and I don’t leave the house without them! I would feel weird leaving the house without them. The few times I do, they are probably in my bag waiting to be put back on. I workout in them and they sit in the little ring tray when I am getting my nails done.

CF: It’s like protection.

AM: I do feel that they are a bit like armor when I put them on. I have had them for so long and I like being able to choose a nice arrange of rings as I tend to wear 4 and always 2 from VSA. The fact that you have archives I do want to dig into those as a few years ago I was looking through that with one of your team members because we thought a project was going to take place and I couldn’t believe pieces I was drooling over that I had never seen on the website.

CF: Oh yeah the archive!

AM: Right and to your point, I was like we need to go to San Miguel because I can only imagine!

CF: You and Paul need to come down you would have so much fun! I love how versatile the pieces are the people that love this brand. I remember when Tim McGraw was in a photoshoot and he was styled in various pieces. The shearling coat was Dolce Gabbana and the best photo of all is a full page shot of him in his lounge chair in his office. He had his belt buckle on – VSA belt buckle and his hat and his favorite denim shirt and the credits said that the buckle was designer’s own. He was so proud of wearing that piece. I don’t care that he didn’t say my name –

AM: I remember seeing that picture and looking at the credits and I knew it was VSA!

CF: Yeah! That’s the thing – he chose that outfit because that was the picture and he looked so relaxed and so great.

We get phone calls and emails of people claiming that the pieces have done something to save their life – it is bizarre. We had a woman from NYC call the office and she was crying. She told me that she was weaing the Guadalupe belt buckle in Central Park and walked up to a woman crying on a park bench. She put her hand on her shoulder and said can I help you? The woman looked up and saw the belt buckle and said, “you just did.” The woman on the bench had prayed to Guadalupe asking for a sign or she would end her own life.

AM: Oh my.

CF: I mean, we were all crying by the end of that story. It was just amazing and we get these stories. People from Patagonia that had a life changing event that happened while wearing the necklace and now they aren’t going to take it off. You can’t believe some of the things that we hear and there is a power behind it.

AM: I always feel settled when I wear them it’s putting on those last elements to take on the world like armor.

CF: Listen to us!

AM: I’ve always felt that when you wear an accessory and especially when it comes to jewelry and that skin to skin contact, there is what the designer intended by designing it and then it merges with who you are as a person and then it becomes like a totem in many respects. You wear it every day, stories and moments in time are being associated and there is something there.

CF: I think jewelry does that way more than a sweater or something of that nature.

AM: Totally! I think it’s like when you walk into someone’s home, you feel a vibe because you are in the space of the inhabitants that eat, sleep, and live there and the home becomes an amplifier of the energy and sentiments that are there.

CF: Exactly.

AM: So the pieces that you’re wearing, because it is everyday and next to your skin – it is a thing.

IG @vsa_designs

PHOTOGRAPHY CREDITS | PG 56 - 65 Virgins Saints and Angels | PG 73 - 75 Paul Farkas

Read the DEC ISSUE #120 of Athleisure Mag and see AVANT GOTHICA WITH VSA in mag.

STORING SEEDS | JB SMOOVE

We're all about big energy while keeping it real and J.B. Smoove is both of these! You know when you see him on the stage or on your screen that he's going to make you laugh, think and give you his philosphy on life and how to approach it - all while rocking great style. We've enjoyed seeing him in a number of films from Pootie Tang, Barbershop: The Next Cut, the Spider-Man franchise and more. He's also been in numerous TV series from The Last O.G., Woke and of course Curb Your Enthusiasm. He's someone that you see everywhere and yet he aligns perfectly with the projects that we see him in.

We had to check in with him to find out about his journey from being a standup comedian, SNL writer and performer, actor and more. He talked about how he honed his skills, how he navigates his career and what he has coming up.

ATHLEISURE MAG: What was the moment that you realized that you wanted to be an entertainer?

J.B. SMOOVE: You know, I’ve always been the one – some people have a high threshold for pain, I think that that’s what it is. In simple terms, I think that I have this thing and feel for people when I know that people need laughter and they need communication. They need all these fun things that make life easier.

I remember one time that I missed my flight because somebody stopped me and I could tell that this dude needed somebody to talk to about his dreams and I missed my damn flight! I felt like, damn I’ll get the next one. In that moment, it just felt like something was - like sometimes you just have to talk people off the ledge in some sense you know? It’s their life, it’s their everything, but sometimes what you provide for people is something that you can’t buy. I think that shows that you’re a real person and it shows you that you can reach out and touch that person. What I promote is real!

You know how fans get, sometimes they don’t believe that you are who you are or who they think you are, or who they perceive you to be by what you do on camera. You know how it is. Nowadays, the world is faster, people promote certain things, but that’s not who they are. They do things to be accepted, to be liked, to be all these things and it’s not real and it doesn’t come from a real place. I think for me and my upbringing from where I started from is something that I can appreciate more. I’m talking about the days from pulling over and having to make a phone call at the phone booth! Those days, it was more hands on – you know what I mean? There’s automatic transmission and then there’s manual – I’m a manual dude! I got to switch gears for myself. I need to know when to slow down and when to hit the brake! Sometimes I don’t brake at all! Most of the time, I’m just changing gears because brake means that I’m going to stop. When you’re changing gears, I’m just navigating through it! You know what I mean? It’s different!

AM: And it is different!

I think that you have such an authenticity about you and that’s why people love being able to see you. It’s great to see you popping on screen in your shows or starting up my Mon with your podcast. I know that when I hear you, I’m going to get you as an authentic full experience!

JBS: Yes indeed! And that, you know to answer the question – that is something that I do from the heart and for the love of what I do! For the love of being in the moment, for the love of something to hold onto that knowledge and to hold onto that laughter! Holding onto things that makes me happy – it’s the ability to benefit the world or the people who also want to do what I do or just want to be inspired. I do think that it applies to every walk of life no matter what your occupation is or what your dreams are, the same process applies. Come early, stay late, be courteous to people, respect their dreams and what they're trying to do – don’t waste their time, don’t waste your time. There are certain things that will apply always. I think that is the core of growth and the core of achieving your dreams. What I want to do is to be consistent. I want to give this laughter away whether you’re paying me or if you’re not paying for it. I don’t get paid if I stop and talk to someone for half an hour and miss my flight. I can’t say, “oh I got paid for that so it’s ok I missed the flight.” No, I’m doing that because I felt something for this person in that moment that they needed this quick little talk and it’s free.

AM: How did you hone your craft?

JBS: You know, being in real situations. Real situations are a comedian's food. That’s our food. Real situations, you can elaborate on real situations and make them funny. You can take pain and make it funny. You can take funny and make it funnier. So you know, it’s all in the construction of the joke, the construction of the situation, the construction of the scene – you know? That is where it comes from. I always say that anyone can tell a joke if I have to use what I do for a living. Anybody can tell a joke, but not everyone can sell a joke. Everybody can’t sell it – you can tell it – but everybody can’t sell it!

AM: I am the worst joke teller because I forget the parts, I have to stop and reset it – so I definitely can’t sell it.

JBS: Oh yeah, that’s true!

AM: I remember when I first saw you for Def Comedy Jam as a standup comedian and then you went onto SNL as a writer and a performer! What was that experience like?

JBS: To me it was great. But again, you gotta make decisions on your movement because when I started on Def Comedy Jam and I was on BET and did all of these TV shows, guest-starring, touring in colleges, those road gigs, tours and all of the things that I have done, making the decision to move to LA, doing all of that stuff and making the decision to go on Cedric the Entertainer Presents, getting on Lyricists Lounge Show – doing guest spots on TV shows, doing my first CBS deal – all those things I’ve done.

Then to sit there and say, “ok I have this audition for SNL.” My second time auditioning for SNL actually. I did it twice. I was going for cast member. For me, you sit there and you say, I’m going in for cast member and I didn’t make the show as a performer but I ended up making the show as a writer. Even when I got the offer for a writer, I was in the middle of a deal for a host of stuff of my own so I had to say do I put myself on hold to work on Saturday Night Live? So I sat and thought about it and decided that it would look great on my resume so I said, as more of a business move. I know that the percentage of shows that actually air are so small and back then it was REALLY hard! Back then we didn’t have streaming services. We didn’t have Netflix and Hulu and Amazon. We didn’t have any of this stuff. It was just regular TV, HBO and Showtime. We had the premium channels but those opportunities, we didn’t have as big of a chance to get someone to air. I had to sit there and say, “ok. If I put this to the side and do this, how can I make this work for me?” I said, I will do this and then figure it out later. But this is going to look great on my resume – SNL.

So I came to SNL and when I got here, I ended up doing sketches, I ended up being a writer on the show, I ended up doing monologues on the show and ended up doing all these amazing things for the show and doing warmups for my 3 seasons. So I ended up doing a lot of stuff and that was 4 different checks – that’s a NY hustle right there! But that’s also being someone who has different skills – who can be a utility person – 4 things at the same time. That helps me and shows how I can be versatile. I can do 4 jobs at once.

For me, it worked out perfect. I had the chance to be JB, I had a chance to be someone who's able to do all of these amazing things and at the same time, it allowed me to work and build my resume and network with these amazing guest stars of the show. So it was definitely a process. I can’t say that it was easy – it was hard work because you’re talking about someone going from being a standup comedian to being a writer. I wasn’t a traditional writer. I improvise a lot in my standup so for me it made more sense to take it, do all of my skills under one roof. I did 3 seasons over there and it looks great on my resume, so it served its purpose doing it that way.

None of those other opportunities went away, the opportunities for TV shows were still there, the opportunities for movies were still there and I was still able to leave there and do a bunch of movies – The Sitter, Hall Pass, Date Night all in a row. I got a chance to do all of that stuff and when I was working over at SNL, I did Conan O’Brien. Conan O’Brien’s show, he was still at NBC at that time and I did his show as a sketch artist 10 times. So I had a chance to get from behind the desk typing jokes, go downstairs on the elevator and do a sketch with Conan and then get back in the elevator upstairs to finish working. I got a chance to do so many things while I was over there. Again, it wasn’t easy and it was humbling in some sense. You’re in control on stage but you’re not in control on this show which is live TV. Everything is just fast. You have to sit there and write all night long for these sketches and it’s humbling because it’s like your trying out for the cheerleading team or the football team and you go in the hallway and they put the list up of who made the team. There was a piece of paper in the hallway that said whose sketch made it and you had to read that list on the wall and you’d say, "damn, I didn’t get it."

AM: Oh wow that happened every week!

JBS: It was an amazing experience and I wouldn't change that for anything in the world. I would have rather taken this process that I have already completed rather than this fast and quick process that these young people are doing now. I had more time to smell the roses.

AM: I’m a huge fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm, you joined it in the 6th season and I know that the 12th season is coming back, how did you get attached to the show and how involved are you in creating and evolving the character of Leon Black?

JBS: Oh man! My wife told me that I was going to be on the show. We would watch the show, we loved the show and even when I was on SNL, we would talk about the show on our writing days. One day I said, that I would love to be on the show and man I got the opportunity. I always say that one thing has to step out of the way in order for something else to come through. I didn’t get renewed for my 4th season of SNL and I literally went from coming to LA for a friend’s memorial – my friend Oji Pierce who composed and produced This is How We Do It and I was there for his memorial service. I make moves because I trust my process and I trust my talent. I know I always bounce back from things. I had actually fired my agent – I fired every damn body! I knew that once I fired them, I wasn’t going back to SNL.

The agents are the ones that fight for you and keep you hired. They are the ones that call and make it go. I said, well if I fire my agent who I am not happy with, I know for a fact, that I will not get spoken about and they’re not going to push to keep me on the show if they’re not getting paid to do what they do. So I said, “well, I’m going to see what happens.” I fired them and I knew I wasn’t going back and for a fact that with no one there to speak for me, there was no way that I was going to be able to stay at SNL.

So I took that chance, I rolled the dice and I took that chance. Low and behold, I didn’t get renewed. I was out on the road for a month doing standup. Oji passed away, my wife already told me that I was going to be on Curb Your Enthusiasm and I got a phone call of my friend passing and I went to LA for one day. I signed with a new agent before I went to LA, went to meet them when I got to LA and one of the agents said, “man, I have an audition for you – how long are you in town?” I told them that I had come into town for 1 day to pay respects to my buddy and I was going back tomorrow.

He said he had an audition for me and I asked him what it was for and he said, Curb Your Enthusiasm. I said, “get out of here, you have to be kidding me!” I went on the audition and you know, I did what I did well which is improvise which takes these scenes and make them my own. Let me do what I do because I’m going to do what I do! Me and Larry hit it off in the audition. We hit it off to the point where we were in there laughing our butts off and having a good time. We became friends that day. I left there and said to myself, if someone gets that job, God bless them, but me and that man had a great time! That leads to me being on the greatest improvised show to me in TV history.

So, my process is, I’m an improv guy. I have been improvising my entire life and I think that that’s a life choice too. Improvising gives you the ability to change your mind in the moment where no one will ever know that you changed your mind! Improvising will give you the ability to sway someone in a different direction. Improvising gives you a way of reading energy and reading their body language – all of these great things that you can do by knowing the process and being able to improvise. It pays off in life, it pays off in acting, it pays off in real estate sales if you’re a realtor. You can be anyone you want, but if you improvise just a little bit, it allows you to pick up little nuances about people that you can use to your advantage.

I think that that’s what helps me so much having to improvise in my standup career so much. It really allowed me to take that skill and to use that 1 little improv class that I took that summer before I started doing standup. I would tell anyone that they should take improv – I don’t care what you do. That allowed me to really hone in on my acting skills and to get in the moment which makes my standup shows so different. I’m literally listening to what this particular audience is laughing at which is what I apply to Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Whatever is working for my character and sometimes, I don’t know what I will do with my character. Sometimes I don’t know. Sometimes I just go with what the scene is and I take that. Sometimes what I do is, I will decide in the moment if I want to have Larry’s back or if I want to go against Larry. I decide right there, do I want to be on Larry’s side or will I go against him – what is the better argument here? I really decide in the moment and it gives me the upper hand and let’s me drive that. It also lets me give him something new that he doesn’t know about the character every time I work with him. That way, I create these forks in the road – these branches to the character. My character has never been defined. We still don’t know where the hell he came from – so for me to be able to make that up over the 6 seasons that I have been there is great! I can still tell people a little more that they need to know about Leon which makes it fun!

AM: You have been in so many series and films from Spider-Man movies, co-hosting – what do you look for when you’re sent projects and what goes into your decision on whether you’re going to participate in something?

JBS: I go by this, which works for me: I read the script of course. If they specifically call for me, I’m kind of past the audition process at this point because I am established all these years. I get offers for things and I can say yay or nay to the offer. Once in a while, I have to read for something – once in a while. It could be something very specific or something that is outside of my lane and it’s to show that I can do something if it’s a drama or something like that. If I meet a director or a producer and they ask for me specifically and they say that they want me to make my character my own, that is the most precious words that I can hear for an improv guy or a guy that they can trust to do that character. When they say, “make the character your own JB. We love your voice and your sensibilities and we love what you do and we want you to be that character and vice versa.” So I’m like cool, let me make it my own and I take that character and I make them my own. This happens in movies, in TV, in commercials, in animations – it doesn’t matter. They let me do me and if it’s animations, I say let me see the character so I can see who it is and then I can take that character and then I can make that character my own.

AM: You also have Four Courses with JB Smoove, why did you want to do this?

JBS: You know what. I love talk shows and I love talking to friends and I’m good at it. I love to sit there and kick it and have a convo with people and that is what makes interviewing people so fun. I’m curious of the process. I’m curious about your path and I’m really engaged. I love to laugh and I love the stories. I love to tell stories and I love to be interviewed while I’m interviewing – you know what I’m saying? I think that’s fun. I love to be interviewed while I’m interviewing.

AM: Last year when May I Elaborate? first came out, I knew I would be obsessed with it. I love hearing you and Miles Grose talking back and forth about various topics and it was a great way to start my day. Why did you want to create this podcast show?

JBS: You know what? It was one of those things where everybody was doing podcasts. I knew that if everyone was doing podcasts, I had to do something that was funny, insightful and I like to give what I call, broken wisdom sometimes! I feel like there’s more than 1 way for you to be able to get it. For some people, you have to shake it out of their ass and then you have to shake it into them and then shake whatever the issue is out of them at the same time. I think of that tough hard love in a funny way and in a way that makes sense to people. I’m giving it to you in a way that is like a friend. I’m not a doctor, I don’t know it all, I know a lot about everything and a little bit about nothing. You need that balance! You have to tell people sometimes that, “I’m not sure but God damn, I know you got to give it to them like that and here’s what I would do.” I can’t say it’s going to work, but this is what I would do and this is how to get the process started. You sometimes have to get out of your own fucking head. If I can get you out of your own head, I’m halfway there! That’s the block right there. You’re like a controlled schizophrenic – you are battling yourself in your own head. Different versions of you don’t know how to handle certain things. So you’re stuck in a certain place and you just need to find some kind of way to talk to the right person in your head to get it moving in the right direction.

AM: With the 2nd season dropping last month, what can we expect for the season going forward? Last season was really long as it was everyday which was great. This season, the format is a little different with it being on Mon and you guys have more personalities that are joining you each week like Tiffany Haddish, Kevin Nealon and Randall Park. What can we look forward to?

JBS: In the 1st season, we did almost 190 episodes! Which is crazy! So, we will more than likely maybe transition this amazing podcast into possibly an animated version – we’re not sure yet. We think that the wisdom is funny enough and the visuals that I give Miles and that Miles gives me, you always want to see it and I think that there is a funny way to present this show.

It’s so funny, we got nominated for a podcast award but guess what? We didn’t get nominated in the comedy category. We got nominated in the inspirational and religious category which is crazy! We got nominated with all the gurus and people who are speaking real shit. We’re taking real things and just elaborating on them in a funny way and we get put in that category instead of a comedy one which is nutso! It’s a little bit flattering in some ways to be nominated with all of these amazing people who are really speaking truth to the world. But it’s also like, damn, is what we’re saying not funny or are we ambidextrous - we’re left and right-handed? Can we do both? We have found a way to do both!

Without Miles, Miles is the glue. He is the voice of reason. He is the funniest dude ever. He does the research, I elaborate and he pulls me back. So, we have something that works well and yes, we’re not sure what we’re going to do with the show yet. We have so many ideas on our slate that it’s unlimited amount of ideas that we have that we can do and we haven't locked in what we’re going to do with May I Elaborate?, but we’re not locked out of it either. So, we’ve done a lot of episodes. For this type of show, we’re not just turning it on and talking. You have to do a little research and it takes a lot of time and looking at the perfect quote and affirmation and using it to our advantage.

AM: For last season, it was just the perfect show especially in the midst of the pandemic. To be able to have those lighter moments that would come in and to start the day off with that, it allowed us to have some laughs before we delved into the work here at Athleisure Mag whether it was booking, virtual shoots, meetings etc and it created a part of the day that we looked forward to. That was definitely special but in general. I’m always excited to hear what you will elaborate on?

JBS: Yes and we’re looking forward to doing in some capacity – anything that we can do to help people and to keep things fresh and fun. As little work as possible, but as much of a reward as possible.

AM: You have also had amazing partnerships whether it’s with Crown Royale, Caesars or JUST Egg to name a few. What do you look for when it comes to brand alignment that wants to connect with you? How do you decide what you want to lend your brand to?

JBS: I kind of go with the notion of to talk about what I know about – that way I’m not ever in a weird position. I’m a vegan so I love the JUST Egg relationship that we have. I entertain a lot so I did love my Crown Royale campaign. Every campaign I have ever done, I have always found a way to make it something that I love and that I can put a lot of energy into it and I use it. We were doing this branded entertainment with these companies for years before anybody was really doing it. I did a Mountain Dew campaign years ago – Mountain Dew White Out campaign – you name it. This Caesars one is just another one that I love. I love taking on characters. I like characters. I grew up in the age where commercials were about the characters – the “Where’s the Beef” lady, I love commercials man –

AM: The “Time to Make the Donuts” man.

JBS: Oh yes – time to make the donuts! I love that stuff! I always loved characters and reoccurring cool characters.

AM: We love your Caesars Sportsbook one. Like you said the fact that it’s characters, but also – we love football. We’re in NY, but also – I love football. We’re in NY, but I’m originally from Indiana so when you had the Mannings – that was exciting and then of course, Halle Berry in the commercial! How did this come back with you partnering with them and what will you do with them in terms of ongoing work?

JBS: Well, I actually did a commercial years ago a with a director. The commercial never made it to air, but what happened was, the director remembered me and he loved the commercial even though it never aired and he reached out. He said he was doing a campaign with Caesars and he didn’t see anyone else being Caesar but me! He liked my voice, my delivery and he knew it would be fun. He said he couldn’t imagine anyone else embodying this emperor than me. He said that he thought that it would be amazing and wanted to know if I wanted to do it and I thought it sounded hilarious. He said if we were going to do it, we were going to start the campaign and he had already sold me to Caesars and let them know that they would be blown away by me and that I was his guy. He told them that no one would be able to do this better than JB.

Now that goes back to what we were talking about – coming early, staying late, being courteous, not being a diva – all those things. I’m a seed planter. This is another version of planting seeds for later. I’m the squirrel who has those acorns and buries them for winter. That’s why my phone rings constantly. I’m always planting seeds and I have tons of seeds still planted. My phone rings and it keeps going and that’s why it keeps ringing because I have already planted these seeds and relationships that I have built already. That’s how I keep busy. People say all the time, “man, you’re everywhere – but you don't see everything at one time.” Everything is spread out over time because I have planted seeds and projects and it’s going to come out at this time and then this project over here will come out after this project at this time. My visibility is always up there and that’s the fun part.

AM: You’re an Emmy award winner, author, comedian, actor, producer, podcast host - you do so many things. What else do you want to add to your portfolio that you have yet to do?

JBS: I know at some point, I will get behind the camera and direct something. We started a brand new company called Alternate Side Productions, we’re going to build an amazing brand, an amazing company which will be off the hook. We’re going to do some amazing projects under the JB Smoove banner with brand and style and the things that we love to do. We’re going to build that and I’m going to put a lot of people to work. I think that that’s what needs to be done to build a production company. I want to drop some amazing products in the vegan lane. I’m a vegan. That’s going to be another thing. I have been doing the vegan thing for a long time. A lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon, but you know, I let them do what they do. I’ve been vegan for awhile and I have been harping on this for awhile now and linking myself with other vegan products. A lot of people are just getting onto it and you know, it’s all good. I’m already established in this lane so it’s another thing and extension of what I do. It’s also another extension of caring about people’s health and my own health.

AM: What led you to want to become a vegan?

JBS: Well my wife has been a vegan for forever. My wife is a musical artist and has been a vegan forever and hasn’t had meat in something like 27 years. So, she was a vegetarian for awhile, then a vegan and now she is a raw vegan which is a whole other level. She’s doing that now, but I’m a straight vegan. I’ve been part-time/full-time for a long time. I was part-time vegan and full-time carnivore for awhile. Now, for the past 4 years, I have been a straight vegan and it’s been great.

AM: As you say, you’re always planting seeds. Do you have upcoming projects that you are able to share that we should keep an eye out for?

JBS: Not right now. The main thing I’m working on right now is of course, you know that Curbed got greenlit for season 12, I have a bunch of animated shows coming out, I have the new season of Woke out right now and I’m recording something right now for a video game. I’m also recording 2 other animated shows at the same time. I’m also building this company. I’m resuming my standup tour and I’m also doing a special and hoping that I can get it done by the top of the year. There’s a bunch of cool things that I am working on and I’m very happy with my process. I like to be the steady tortoise sometimes – I don’t need everything at one time, I still love my private time so that I can RV. I still love to do all the fun things that I love to do. As I said, my wife is also out there doing her thing with her new studio. We’re doing so many cool things and also we’re building some companies outside of entertainment. Yeah we’re just doing cool stuff and things that are off our interest list.

AM: You have great style that's well accessorized. As a stylist in addition to my role as a Co-Founder and Style Director at Athleisure Mag, how do you define your style and would you ever create your own clothing/accessory line?

JBS: I love style! I grew up in an era where you build your outfits from the shoes up. You get a nice pair of reliable comfortable shoes because the first thing people do is look down at your feet and then they work their way up to your eyes.

I do have some amazing things coming out. I’m working on a watch, I’m working on a hat line and some amazing bracelets. I’m working on a few amazing things. Yes, all of these things I plan on dropping before the new year and this is going to be some amazing accessories. Apparel is a little hard, but accessories are something that I love and I love things that I consider conversation pieces. A conversation piece will get you in the door and you can meet your new boss. It just takes the interview and this changes the meeting and the relationship and takes it to something different. It gets you in differently.

I tell young people all the time, create a conversation piece whether it's a rose or a flower in your lapel – something that people look at and think, “wow, I like his style. I like what he represents.” That is the #1 thing – a shiny pair of shoes, a pocket square – something amazing on you to create and allow people to keep their eyes on you. It creates that question of, what kind of rose is that, what kind of pocket square – who made that tie? All these things are things that people look at and allows them to reaffirm who you are!

AM: I couldn’t agree more – statement pieces are so essential!

With everything that you have done, what do you want your legacy to be?

JBS: I just want to be known as a chance taker. I believe in getting as many at bats as possible. Get as many swings at the ball as possible. I have always been one where I have had some stumbles, but I have a bad memory of those stumbles. I tell people all the time that life keeps going – it keeps moving. To be free of mind and to be free to take as many swings as possible and to know that you can change your mind. Take as many swings of the things that you want to do in this life as possible. The more swings you get, the more hits you get. If you’re sitting on your hands, you can’t get the swings! I always say, get those swings in, figure out your progress, figure out what you want to do and keep swinging at it. I want to be known as chance taker, a guy that always walks on a tightrope with no net. I always feel like I got good balance. With good balance, you never worry about falling - you know what I mean? If you worry about falling, you worry about standing up.

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PHOTOGRAPHY CREDITS | PG 30 - 31 Harrison O'Brien | PG 33 + 43 Noemad | PG 34, 50 + PG 73 - 75 9DRIP Storm Santo | PG 36 - 40 Curb Your Enthusiasm HBO/John P Johnson | PG 44 - 47 Luis Ruiz | PG 49 The Last O.G. TBS/Cara Howe |

Read the MAY ISSUE #77 of Athleisure Mag and see STORING SEEDS | JB Smoove in mag.