IT'S ALL JUST STORY | RODNEY BARNES

This year when the NBA unveiled their 75th Anniversary Team of retired and active players, it included 17 members who played for the Lakers which includes the Showtime era of the 70/80s with players Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson. To understand the importance of this era and what it did to how we enjoy the game, and how it moved the game forward in terms of commerce and making players brand, Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty illustrates the dynamics at play.

We talked with Rodney Barnes, who has written for STARZ Heels, STARZ American Gods, Everybody Hates Chris and more. He shares how he got into the industry, the positions he has held, his approach to his work, being the Executive Producer and writer for Winning Time, Zombie Love Studios and his passion for comic books and graphic novels.

ATHLEISURE MAG: You’ve worked in various positions in the entertainment industry as a Production Assistant, showrunner, Executive Producer and an award-winning screenwriter. With all of these roles, what was the moment that you realized that you wanted to work in this industry?

RODNEY BARNES: I was going to Howard University and I was in the School of C (Howard University Cathy Hughs School of Communication) and I was working at Georgetown Law Center as a campus cop at night and I found out that the movie The Pelican Brief was coming to my job to film some scenes. So I was really excited because it’s one thing to go to school for this and it’s another thing to actually be able to see it up close. So I signed up for all of the overtime details and I got them all. I started watching the movie being put together and it was so exciting! So I met a guy and he was the PA, he was a Key Set PA. So I asked him how I could get a job doing what he did. He said that that weekend, they had some big scenes that were taking place at the Washington Monument and that if I wanted to come and do it for a day, they'd be happy to have me.

So I did it and it was the most exciting, fun and best $100 that I ever made in my entire life! It was something about it that felt right. I felt more purpose in doing that and being close to this thing that I wanted to be close to then I did doing anything else that paid a lot better. I quit my job at Georgetown and started working as a PA full time.

AM: What a story, we always tell people that we embrace the multi-hyphenate. As someone who has worked in a number of roles and continues to do so from writing and producing, when did you know that you wanted to take on these areas and what the specific area was that you wanted to start in first? Or was there just a confluence that took place to make all of this come together?

RB: I knew I wanted to be a writer, but I knew what I didn’t know. I knew that I didn’t understand how any of this worked and I had a very fundamental understanding of what writing was and telling stories. Quite frankly, emotionally and psychologically, I wasn’t mature enough or evolved enough to be able to take on the big job. So, working as a PA, I look at it as being an apprentice. I had an opportunity to meet people, to sort of find my tribe, to figure out the psychology of how it would work and to just get my legs under me which was a bit like bootcamp. It was always writing, but I had to build up to the idea of being able to take my shot at it because it just felt too big.

AM: What do you think was the biggest thing that you learned from being a PA that has helped you with your career or was it just being able to see all the parts that were moving and to be able to understand how they connect?

RB: There was that. I think that the thing for me was that I always had this idea that everybody in Hollywood must be a genius and I haven’t met a genius yet. But, what I have met are some folks that have worked really really hard at their craft. It sort of demystified the entire process for me in being able to see it up close and to be able to observe. I wouldn’t say that I was a vital part although I know that some people would disagree. It was sort of the type of thing where getting to know people as friends and mentors even though that’s a problematic word as no one put their arm around me and said, “son this is what you do.” But they allowed me to be in their circle and to be able to see how the sausage is made. I got an opportunity to be able to just see things up close and to decide whether or not I could do it, if I wanted to do it and the closer I got to the thing that I wanted, the better that things got for me, but I wouldn’t have been able to do any of it if I hadn’t been a PA.

AM: From a screenwriting aspect, you have written a number of things. I loved your work in American Gods which I loved that show and obviously Winning Time and then you look at shows like Everybody Hates Chris. How do you get inspiration to write and then where do you start from when you’re trying to put words to paper to create these worlds for us?

RB: I never looked at it from a place of inspiration because if I need the emotional investment to do it, then I’m not going to be inspired some of those days and I’m still going to have to do it. For me, the difference was, approaching every day like I’m at work which was no different then when I was at Walmart or Target or any of those places that I worked at along the way. I had to get up, I had to work, I didn’t feel like it and then somewhere midday or so, it got a little bit better and then a little bit better. I sort of approach writing in the same way. I have a lot of resistance on the days that I don’t feel like doing it, but it needs to be done because I have a deadline. 78% of the time, I’m able to be disciplined and I’m able to get it done and the other times, I might go to the movies, sit and watch a game or do something else when I’m supposed to be writing. But I think it’s more of a discipline of doing the thing than an emotional component to it. There are days where I feel it and if I'm writing something like a horror driven thing like in my graphic novels, I'm enjoying it a great deal so it’s easier to do, but whether I feel it or I don’t feel it or am some place in between, I still do it.

AM: Just to circle back to American Gods, one of my minors in college was Classical Civilization so it covered mythologies of the world in addition to Greece and Rome and included African and Asian nations. So when I watched it, I loved seeing all of these stories that came to life. What was it like writing for that?

RB: It was great! The best thing that came out of it was my relationship with Orlando Jones (Sleepy Hollow, American Gods, The Good Lord Bird) who played Anansi/Mr. Nancy on our show. I had a similar thing as you, I didn’t do it in college but I studied a lot of different types of mythology and some of these characters like Anansi and Bilquis and others, you don’t really get to hear a lot about them. Because of comic books, you get Thor and Zeus, Odin and Hercules and those guys but oftentimes, Gods of color don’t get a lot of love. Even when they do, it’s in secondary roles. Working for American Gods and I’m a huge Neil Gaiman fan. So to be able to play in that sort of world and get some genre credits under my name was great as I have a comic book company and I also tell a lot of genre driven stories so being able to legitimize that beyond wanting to do it was always something that I wanted to do.

AM: It was such a phenomenal series. I remember seeing the episodes and being able to see some of these characters that I had read about being brought to life so fully, it kept me glued and it was truly incredible.

So as a screenwriter, what is that process like in terms of getting attached to a project and how does one pitch themselves to get into this work?

RB: Well my agents do a lot of my pitching. They typically open doors, but I’d say that about 75% of the work that I get, outside of the things that I create, really comes from via word of mouth. Right now it’s a good time because of Winning Time and people seemingly are enjoying it and you get a lot of offers to do things because they like it which I am grateful for and it is a blessing. More often than not, it’s about putting yourself in the right position you know? People know that I write graphic books and comic books so whenever a project like that comes around and it seems like they can use a writer like me, oftentimes, they’ll call or not so much now because I have been doing it for awhile but maybe 7 or 8 years ago, if it was something that I had heard about that was coming down the pike, I would tell my agents to keep an eye out on it and then see if maybe they could get me up there to be considered.

AM: Is it a different flow for you when you’re writing for the BET Awards or the Oscars – is there a different approach because it’s a live audience or a different format then just a show or even the comic books?

RB: Not really, I look at all of it like it’s story whether it’s writing a joke, Chris Rock or one of his specials or whoever I’m working for for the Oscars or an awards show. Even a joke is a story. It has a beginning, a middle and an end. Whether I’m telling a funny story or a horrifying story or a dramatic story, at the end of the day, it’s all a story. So, I approach it all the same way. The biggest thing for me is really understanding who’s going to be interpreting the words. Like, I work a lot with Chris Rock, and I know him really, really well so if I’m going to pitch something to him, I incorporate that knowledge into the pitch. Like, I can sort of filter myself and know that he wouldn’t like this or he would really like that part. In writing the shows, I have built a great relationship with a lot of our cast and so, I try to write to their strengths as well as to the story that I am trying to tell. When I am saying that I’m writing to their strengths, I'm talking dialogue. There is a cadence to how people talk and if you can make it easier for them to interpret the words, I think that they become more comfortable with it so it's really more so about having familiarity with it for the task at hand.

AM: Also in your body of work, you have been a co-producer and a producer in shows like Heels, Winning Time and Wu-Tang: An American Saga. We’ve had a number of WWE wrestlers as our cover and shared their stories so seeing Heels was another show that we enjoyed. When did you realize that you wanted to add these roles into your body of work and how does that change your perspective especially when you're also writing the show as well?

RB: Well it’s funny, those titles of producing can mean a lot of different things. Earlier in my career, say on My Wife and Kids, when I was a producer, it wasn’t really a lot more to do than sitting in a room and writing. It’s sort of like the government, government jobs they have G-1, G-2 as you work up and it’s sort of like that in television in writing as well. If you do it long enough, you start out as a staff writer and then you move up to a story editor and then an executive story editor and then you go up through the WGA (Writers Guild of America) classifications that go with moving up. But then, in certain gigs like in Everybody Hates Chris, I was in the writer’s room and wrote a number of episodes, but I also produced the voiceover that you would hear in every show. So I would write the lines and go with Chris Rock and go record the lines together and then I would place them in the show in editing. So, to me that was actually the beginning of actually producing and so on different shows, that idea of what a producer means is something different.

On Winning Time, I actually work with the actors whether it’s working on set with their lines, working with the director to see whether or not a shot is sort of lining up with how we saw it when we were writing the show – it can mean a lot of different things. There are some shows where I have been an EP and it didn't mean anything more than just writing a show and putting it together or on some shows I'm actually tangibly doing something different. On American Gods, I wrote and also worked on the set with the actors and the director as well and putting it all together. On Heels, not so much. Marvel's Runaways – not so much. But it’s different with each one, so it’s a classification that comes with being a TV writer and as the responsibilities go, it has more to do with what that show requires.

AM: When I first heard about Winning Time last fall, I knew I was going to love it, I remember as a kid in 1986 loving this team even though I grew up in Indiana and it continues even though I live in NY now. So seeing this story, hearing about this story and getting this inside scoop of what was going on has made it really enjoyable to watch. How did you get attached to this project and what made you want to be involved?

RB: Max Borenstein (Kong: Skull Island, Worth, Godzilla vs Kong) who is our showrunner and the other Executive Producer as well, he and I have been writing together for about 10 years and when Jim Hecht (Fairly OddParents, Ice Age 2: The Meltdown, The Ice Age Adventures of Buck Wild) first optioned the book, he got the book to Adam McKay (Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby, Vice, Don’t Look Up), and he got it to HBO and they said they would do a pilot I believe, I don’t know if the project was picked up then. They hired Max, Max called me and I said yes that I would want to be a part of it. That’s how it started.

AM: It’s an incredible cast and I love McKay films and the people that are in it. In terms of writing this where you had Jeff Pearlman’s book Showtime: Magic, Kareem, Riley and the Los Angeles Lakers Dynasty of the 1980s, how much source material did you have as I know players of that time as well as the franchise didn’t reach out to you on this. How did you coalesce these things all together to create this story and to provide that insider feel?

RB: Well we were really fortunate that book. So we studied a lot of books and Rick Fox, former Laker was our technical advisor, we talked to a lot of folks who were around the team at that time who worked for the organization, YouTube – we did a lot of research everywhere – articles anything that we could find. We sort of incorporated into the narrative and some stuff we had to tie in together for dramatization purposes.

AM: Obviously with the people that were involved, John C Reilly (Gangs of New York, The Aviator, Anchorman II: The Legend Continues), Jason Clarke (Brotherhood, Chappaquiddick, Silk Road), Rob Morgan (Stranger Things, The United States vs. Billie Holiday, Don’t Look Up), Jason Segel (How I Met Your Mother, Dispatches from Elsewhere, Hotel Artemis) and Adrien Brody (The Grand Budapest Hotel, Peaky Blinders, Succession) etc, there are actors in there where there is a lot of secret sauce. You have actors who were athletic but didn’t play basketball and having to do so for this role, having Quincy Isaiah play such a key and iconic person who was new to this platform, how did all of this come together to get that energy, to make an audience believe that these people who be playing this game even though they didn’t necessarily have this background?

RB: Francine Maisler (Uncut Gems, Being the Ricardos, Dune) is our casting director and she did a great job finding folks. Sometimes you get lucky like in the case of Quincy who is from Michigan and was an athlete – a football player. He had to lose 80lbs or so to come down to being able to have a Magic Johnson-like look. Solomon Hughes who plays, Kareem Adbul-Jabbar is an educator, is 7-feet tall, plays jazz and he played basketball on a professional level before. You just get lucky sometimes. I think that that’s across the board in finding people that not only have the talent but also the emotional stuff.

If you think about our players, they have to learn how to play the game because some had never played the game before, they had to be convincing to learn how to play a particular way that their character played, they had to go through physical training everyday and then they had to learn their lines and then they had to act. So there would be times when they would have to come from training, be on set, leave their work, leave set and go and play basketball everyday for however long – for a year or so. Then there is the training that went into it before hand and always having a good attitude about it as they were going. We got really really fortunate to find the folks that we found.

AM: When did you realize that you were going to be Maurice?

RB: I’ll tell you when I was working, Max was working on a movie called Worth in NY that’s on Netflix now. I was working on the first season of Wu-Tang: An American Saga. I was in Staten Island, he was in Manhattan. We would meet on the weekends and we would go over it with Jim Hecht and Rebecca Bertuch (Worth) and we would work on putting the show together. Every now and then, this name would pop up, Maurice, Maurice, Maurice – like who the hell is Maurice? Oh, you’re going to see and it was like an inside joke. They knew that I didn’t know. When we were officially on board and we started in the writer’s room in LA, we had all the pictures up of the actors on the wall and then there was a picture of me. I was like, “why is my picture on the wall?” They said, you’re going to play Maurice and I was like, “oh, ok – haha Maurice.” So Max actually wrote Maurice’s lines and the only scene that I had at one time was the scene with Pat Reily where I don’t let him in The Forum. I thought, “ok, I can do that, I’ve been a security guard my whole damn life!” I know how to say you can’t come in. You don’t even need to even write out the lines just let me stand there and I know how to not let you in some place. Then, all of a sudden, I started seeing Maurice pop up in other scripts! He's like a leprechaun where he sort of shows up in different places and I'm like, "why am I popping up?” and then I had a walk and talk which is very difficult as an actor because you have to walk, you have to think and you have to move which was in episode 5 where I had that scene. I was nervous about that scene. Actually, I messed up the scene that is on. I messed up a line but Gabby Hoffman (High Maintenance, Girls, Transparent) who plays Claire Rothman is so great, you would never know because she kept going and I kept going and so that was it and they cut and we went on with the day – but I messed up.

It's cool, the network likes it, everyone likes him and I think that Maurice is going to come back and probably say more words.

AM: We always like when he pops up!

RB: Well, thank you! As long as I stay big and relatively menacing and intimidating, Maurice will probably be around.

AM: What has been your biggest takeaway of being part of this particular project, seeing it come together and the reception of people loving this?

RB: Anytime you work hard at a thing for a long time that is intended to entertain people, you always want that to land the way it is intended so that people are entertained. I think that we’ve got a great reception and that people really seem to like it and it’s sort of gratifying because I and a lot of people give a lot when you do these sort of things and it’s not easily assembled. For me certainly being able to talk about African American culture as it pertains to sports in a way that is sort of elevated is always an honor. It’s a good thing.

AM: Well, you guys have been greenlit for a second season. What does that look like, what do you want to tackle – will it continue with these same players or will it be another part of Laker history or even another time in NBA history for a Winning Time situation?

RB: As of the moment, the plan is to continue on in the same narrative and to just keep telling the story as we have been. Even now, when we first started the process before, we were going in the third or fourth iteration of what you see on screen now – we were going to go a lot faster. Then, the decision was made during COVID to slow down the process of storytelling and we had to go back to the drawing board a couple of times to slow it down. I say all of that to say that you never know. We could speed up a couple of seasons, we can keep going the way that it is, but I think that the plan for now is to continue going in the direction that it is.

AM: One of the things that I enjoy especially with a lot of the HBO shows is that there is a companion podcast and literally, I can’t wait until Mon to listen to the show which drops right after the episode airs on Sun. I listen to JB Smoove and then I listen to your podcast. It’s great to get your insights, what’s going on – the Rob Morgan episode was really great to hear. Every episode is great as there are so many tidbits that can be enjoyed. How did you get attached to hosting this podcast and how much input do you have over who ends up being on the episode with you?

RB: Very similar to how I became Maurice. Somebody thought that it would be a good idea to have me do it and my first reaction was, I have never done a podcast before and they were like, “oh you can do it.” I think that I tried to back out a couple of times and they were like no just give it a shot. I think that I got better as time went on which is sort of the course of life, the more you do it, the better you get at the thing that you do. But, it also helps that I know everybody. Everybody that I have had on so far whether it was Snoop Dogg, Rob Morgan or Quincy, or Max or whoever, I know them. It’s like having a conversation with someone who is a friend and not so much like talking to someone who is a stranger.

They always ask me who I would like to have on and I try to spread it around between the cast members, but also the people behind the scenes. I had Todd Banhazl (Janelle Monae: Dirty Computer, They Call Me Magic, Hustlers), I had Max, I had Jim Hecht, Rebecca, I had Sarah Scott (Pam & Tommy, The Offer, The Flight Attendant) our intimacy coordinator. I had Idan Ravin whose the basketball coordinator. I had our director Salli Richardson (The Chi, Altered Carbon, The Wheel of Time) and Tanya Hamilton (Big Sky, The Deuce, Snowfall). I try to mix it up where you have one of the cast members and then someone who is a technical part of the team so that for people who are interested in being part of the business as one time I was, you can actually hear some of what they do and realize that there are a number of jobs besides the big 4 or 5 at producer, director, writer. There are a lot of other things to be done and some things may spark to someone and hopefully that podcast can help a little bit.

AM: We love seeing the birth of the NBA as we know it today as this entertainment platform with next level dancers, club lounges and had this came together with Dr. Buss. This has become the standard for what it means to go to a NBA game. Being able to hear more about Jack McKinney and his time with the Lakers. I knew he was a coach for the Pacers, but I didn’t know about his backstory. What is it that you want audiences to walk away with after watching this season or subsequent seasons?

RB: Always with our show, we have what you know and the thing that you can Google and find out. Who won the game, who lost the game and those types of things. But there’s also those things that you didn’t know. Like in the case of Jack McKinney, a lot of people had forgotten not just him, but the accident that he was in – the basketball accident and how that changed the course of the Lakers coaching dynamic. So, being able to tell some of those stories and show the Shakespearean dynamic of the coaching system with Paul West head and Pat Riley, most people know Pat Riley being the Lakers coach and they sort of identify with just him, but there were other guys too.

I think that the other side of that coin is Spencer Haywood who was a big part of NBA free agency and a lot of how we look at basketball today in the fact that we can look at James Harden and see him go from team to team to team or LeBron just being able to go to the Heat and all of that – a lot of that has to do with Spencer Haywood and going to court to battle for free agency rights for players. When I was growing up watching the NBA, I’m from Maryland so we had the Bullets, now the Wizards. Usually if a player got drafted, he played with one team for his entire career. It was big news when a player would move from one team to another.

Now, when you look at the change and the evolution both in the style of play when you look at the Showtime offense of Jack McKinney that evolved and to Spencer Haywood’s contribution, that you see in these 2 gentleman, it has a lot to do with the way that the game is played and it’s rarely recognized over the course of history. Anytime we can incorporate things that folks don’t know, it’s always a treat!

AM: Usually, when an episode concludes, we’re usually Googling about 4 things! It becomes a great way to understand how far the game has come in really such a short period of time and how things are so different and the shoulders that people stood on to get to where we are now.

RB: Exactly.

AM: Where did your love for comic books come from. You have Killadelphia that you’re writing, Marvel, Star Wars universes and Lucas Film Studios – where did this come from?

RB: The only inciting influence that I can find in my mind and my heart was that my mother was a school teacher. Before computers and all of that stuff, she would go to the public library to do her lesson plans and she would bring me. There was always this area where you would have kids like in a pen, your Cat in the Hat, Curious George books etc. I had no interest in any of those books because under those books was a box and in that box was comic books. I knew exactly where it was and I don’t think that they ever changed them in all the years that I went. I would just sit in the corner and read them for hours. It sort of became a thing where it was infectious you know? The moral throughline and some of the stories were more evolved than what my 5 or 6 year old mind could handle but I was intrigued by that idea. Then later, people would give them to me and my grandfather would call them funny books back then. They would give me a stack of them and it was a way to keep me quiet. Later on, when I would have odd jobs, I would buy them. This was during a period of time where you could get comic books anywhere – the convenience store, liquor store, virtually any place that had a spinner rack full of comics. Now, you have to go to a comic shop on Wed to get them. But back then, they were readily available and they were only 20 cents or a quarter. Now they’re $4 if not more.

It was just a love that just evolved along with my life. In the beginning, it was mostly about the art and the story. Then in my teen and later years, there were guys like Alan Moore (Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Swamp Thing) and Grant Morrison (Doom Patrol, New X-Men, Fantastic Four 1234) and Frank Miller (Daredevil, The Dark Knight Returns, Sin City), they sort of made it like literature and evolved into something that was more serious and that kept me involved and then later television and film like most people. So there has always been this relationship.

When I was younger, I tried to write comics professionally, but couldn’t find a way in. Like a lot of things that I’m sure people feel with television and film, it’s a tough nut to crack. But even more so back then, there weren’t a whole lot of African American characters and there wasn’t a big indie space when I was coming up. It was just Marvel and DC and every once in a while there’d be a new company that would pop in. They didn’t have the same distribution chain as DC so you were relegated to those 10 characters maybe if there were 10. I think that a lot of times, companies back then felt like unless you were writing for a character of color, what’s the point of hiring this person? So for me, I wanted to take a shot at writing a comic so when I was on the show Runaways which was a Marvel show, they liked my work and I sort of leveraged the appreciation of my work to say, “hey if you guys have any relationship with Marvel Publishing, I’d love to write a comic book.” They gave me Falcon. I quickly realized that I had no idea what the hell I was doing or how to write a comic book. I just took my shot. It was received ok-ish. Then again like the podcast, I kept doing it again and again and again and I got better and better and better at it and then I had the idea for Killadelphia and started a whole new thing. Now I write 10 books a month and I have my own company and it’s taken on a life all of it’s own.

AM: Which is amazing and I know in looking at your IG, you were talking about The Mandalorian which I’m a fan of. You have a project coming out in June – can you tell us more?

RB: Yes, it’s June the 22nd, The Mandalorian adaptation of the TV show and it’s the first adaptation that Marvel and Lucas Film have done with a project. It’s basically straight adaptation of that story. They don’t let you deviate too far from the story because it’s Star Wars cannon and you can’t really interfere or add new things because it’s connected to the television show. So I basically do my version of the television show would be.

AM: It’s still very cool though!

RB: Yes, it’s an honor to play in that space.

I just finished IG-88 Star Wars: War of the Bounty Hunters and I did Lando Double or Nothing earlier. I love to play in the space. I have a Luke Cage short that’s coming up and maybe a Luke Cage miniseries coming up for Marvel. So anytime you get to play in that space, it’s always fun because it’s such a big fan base that you get to connect with that many people is always an honor.

AM: You created Zombie Love Studio which deals with creating original graphic novels and things of that nature, what are some things coming out of there that you want to highlight?

RB: The first book is Blacula, a reboot of the Blacula character from Blaxploitation era in Oct/Nov which should be dropping then. I also have another book, Florence and Normandie and alien attack story that takes place on the corner of Florence and Normandie famous because of the Rodney King riots that started from there. I’m writing that with Xzibit. I have Tales from the Crip with Snoop Dogg which is the Crip Keeper. I have a book called Crownsville which is set in one of the first black mental asylums in America that’s a ghost story.

There's a bunch of other things that we’re developing that are moving along. There aren’t enough hours in the day, but I’m really excited about it all and it’s coming together slowly but surely.

AM: The depth of what you’ve done is truly phenomenal. What are things on your bucket list that you have yet to do or areas that you want to put into that body of work that you haven’t but that you’re still interested in tackling.

RB: Well certainly, developing the Zombie Love books and Killadelphia and things like that into my Substack page where I do 4 of the books. 3 that are connected to the Killadelphia world which is the book that I do at Image. There are 3 books that I do at Image, Killadelphia, Nita Hawes’ Nightmare Blog and Monarch an alien attack miniseries that I am doing. My Substack page has 3 other series, Johnny Gatlin who is a gun slinger in hell and hell is like the Wild West. 20 Degrees Past Rigor which is a zombie story set in Flint, Michigan where zombies are connected to the polluted waters of Flint. The Butcher of Black Bottom which is a serial killer story set in 1920’s Black Bottom section of Detroit. Then there’s Elysium Gardens which is in the back of Killadelphia which has an ongoing story on a Substack page. So, there are those books as well. There’s a lot of stuff and next, I hope to adopt a lot of those things into other forms of media whether it’s animated, live action or television or those kinds of things.

AM: Because you have so many projects that are just in constant rotation, how do you deal with the overlap? Do you have to be at a certain point before you take other things on – do you slice it up like a pizza and mix it the best that you can?

RB: Ha! That’s basically it. I try to tackle each thing as the day comes at me. I usually get up at 4 in the morning and then I start writing and I get the comic book stuff done in the morning. Then I tackle my day jobs like Winning Time or anything else that I have in front of me and I take it as the day comes. Whoever is yelling the most that is owed the thing to them – so yeah! Whoever’s voice is the loudest at the moment!

AM: I think that the time that we’re living in right now, although there is still a need for a lot more representation, to think of myself now versus the younger me who wouldn’t have thought to know that there would be an Ava Du Vernay (A Wrinkle in Time, Queen Sugar, Girls Trip), yourself, Shonda Rhimes (Bridgerton, Inventing Anna, Grey’s Anatomy) all these people that are moving storytelling forward. How important is it for you to reflect that in your work and to have POC be able to see themselves as well as for others to understand why they need to be an ally and to make these spaces more open?

RB: Well I think it’s important because the world doesn’t connect in the same way anymore like physically. We don’t talk to each other the way that we used to and it wasn’t perfect back then either. It’s more important than ever to be able to tell stories that have a ring of truth or some semblance of honesty. That way you get to see people as they are good, bad and indifferent more so than as a caricature or something that feels contrived in some way. I think that a lot of the biases that we hold with each other comes from those depictions. I know since 1619, a concerted effort was made speaking directly to African American culture to make us less than human. There’s one idea of being less than human, but you have to reinforce that on a regular basis. So you either make them caricatures or villains – one extreme or the other. If that idea has the ability to sort of ferment for 400 years or more then you’re at a place where it almost becomes truth because you’re so used to seeing that be the case.

So when you have this culture that is fighting for a slice of the pie or some semblance for respect and dignity, living in a culture and you’re sort of burdened by living with that depiction. It's really a hard thing to overcome because then even the culture itself starts to believe it – is this who I am and some people do. That can be problematic in its own way because you start to devalue yourself and people who look like you.

So I think that the more folks that can get in for various gender, sexual orientation, race or whatever it may be – to be able to speak to your truth in an honest way cannot only help you and the group that you’re in but also people outside of that group so that they have a better understanding of who you are and the struggle that you navigate just to be a human being and to have a human experience.

AM: Who are 3 people that you feel were profound, instrumental or helpful to be in your career?

RB: Damon Wayans (My Wife and Kids, Lethal Weapon, Major Payne) is always first! He was the first person that gave me an opportunity to work on a television show. Were it not for him, I wouldn’t be here. Don Reo (Everybody Hates Chris, Two and a Half Men, The Ranch) who was the showrunner and creator with Damon on My Wife and Kids. He helped take whatever raw ability I had and allowed me into a space in a way that pushed me to a space where I was able to see for myself what I had to do. I’m eternally grateful to him as well. I have to say that there is a tie for number 3 Allen Hughes (Dead Presidents, Menace II Society, The Book of Eli) of the Hughes Brothers, a director. He helped me to bridge art and commerce. He gave me an opportunity to write in a different type of way and helped me find my way of doing art. He was very supportive in that. Then, Max Borenstein who is our showrunner on Winning Time who sort of did the same thing but in a different way. There’s a push sometimes that you need to get out of where you have been to where you want to be and Max was very helpful in being able to push me. Beyond him pushing me, was me pushing me as well. There are a lot of other people and if you had given me 10 or 20, I could have continued on with other people who have helped me even if it was just survival – that’s important as well. So when it comes to writing and being a professional writer, those people come to mind.

IG @therodneybarnes

PHOTOGRAPHY CREDITS | PG 78 Warrick Page/HBO MAX | PG 81 - 85 STARZ/American Gods | PG 87 + 88 STARZ/Heels | PG 91 -102 HBO MAX/Winning Time |

Read the APR ISSUE #77 of Athleisure Mag and see IT’S ALL JUST STORY | Rodney Barnes in mag.

WELCOME BACK SAGE

Earlier this year, we hung out at ESPN's campus to catch up with some of the ladies of SportsCenter. We created our fashion editorial with them throughout their day as well as interviewing them on the various shows they were on.

This month, we had lunch with one of our favorite sportscasters growing up, Sage Steele. You may know her from ESPN SportsCenter (and we're excited that she is back on the network starting August 28th with SportsCenter AM), but one of our co-founders enjoyed watching her in their market covering local sports! We took some time in between Sage's move back to CT from Arizona, prepping for her show with her team to find out more about how she got into the industry, who she cheers for, what it's like to be back on the network and how she takes some time for herself!

ATHLEISURE MAG: What was your path to becoming a sports broadcaster?

SAGE STEELE: Well it's something that I knew I wanted to do when I was young as I was 12 years old. I knew that as a daughter of an athlete and I had 2 brothers and I was an athlete myself. I just knew that I wouldn't be able to play sports competitively past high school so the second best thing to be around it was to be able to talk about it with these athletes. I was just talking with my boss about this, the reason that we all - these sports fans love sports is that obviously, it's about where we are from and about our teams. For 3 hours on a Sunday, you're watching a football game and nothing else matters. It's not about your race, your age, your
religion, your gender - none of it matters, we're just fans of that team! It's beautiful and I love how sports just brings us together no matter what. And I just wanted to be a part of that. Now it's 22 years in the making - I have been in this for 22 years! It's been a very long, uphill climb,
but ESPN was always my dream. Sometimes I couldn't believe that it has been 10 years that I achieved my dream and that I am still in it!

AM: What do you think the current state of women in sports media is?

SS: Oh gosh it's come so far. It almost cracks me up when people say, "oh women, women" and I always say that yes we need more women, but do you not realize how far we have come? Not that it's enough, but I mean I was always the only woman in the lockerroom. For years - always
- that has changed drastically. Big networks specifically are looking for women to fill these roles on air. Years ago, that would have never happened! ESPN literally, doesn't think twice about hiring a woman. Is it the right person period? I am really proud of how far we have all
come. I just think now it's second nature. No one thinks, "wow they have a woman on SportsCenter". It's been like that for a very long time.

AM: Who are your favorite teams?

SS: It's funny because it's rotated through the years because I am an army brat and didn't have a home town so to speak. The first NFL team I fell in love with was the Denver Broncos because we lived in Colorado and we had come from Europe in 1984. That was during the Orange Crush,
John Elway and the Super Bowl years. Once again, it confirmed what I wanted to do for a living because I was in awe of how an entire state could come to a standstill on a Sunday and all be screaming and yelling for the same team and that was when I really fell in love with sports.

Otherwise, the NBA Pacers that was the first NBA team I really covered. I went to school in Indiana and went to high school there so I loved the Colts and of course College Basketball, I'm
a Hoosier. I have to say that I root for some of those teams, but at the end of the day, maybe because I'm older and jaded, but I don't root for teams per se but now it's for people. It's about
the people that I have met and those that I know are good humans and not just great athletes and good coaches. That's what it has come down to now - focusing on certain people.

AM: You're coming back to ESPN SportsCenter, what was it like the first time you worked with the network and what's it like coming back?

SS: Gosh well the first time was 10 years ago and I cannot believe how much the campus has changed and grown. But then again, it's also about how much I have changed - I was scared to death coming here 10 years ago! I really was! I was 10 years younger - only 34 and I had 3 babies under the age of 4. I was just in a different phase and pretty stressed out. I guess now I am pretty stressed out for other reasons because now my kids are teenagers and it's a different kind of stress. I have grown so much through the years here at ESPN. It's overwhelming sometimes, because I know I've become just a better broadcaster because of doing it. Just like in any industry you just have to get to the point that you're in your own zone and you don't really listen to what other people say or think about you especially today in the world of social media. You know if you have done a good job at the end of the day when the executives bring you back for more, then you know that overall you have done a really good job.

It's been such a whirlwind and not just 22 years of my career but specifically at ESPN for the last 10, I've done so many things and so many events and it's been really awesome to just represent this  company as I'm so thankful.

AM: You start on Aug 28th, what can we expect when we watch SportsCenter:AM for the relaunch and what takes place in this show that is different than the other SportsCenter's throughout the day?

SS: This is the first thing that people wake up to. A lot of times, people have to o to bed they have lives and they have not been able to see results of all the games that they have cared about or their favorite athletes that they follow. So you're going to wake up to highlights
and analysis and a pretty fast paced show that catches you up on what you missed last night and helping you to look ahead on what to expect for the day of sports.

There are three of us as hosts me, Randy Scott and Jay Harris. We're really good friends. So it's a three hour show and we need all three of us, that's for sure! I think it's rare these days to have
three people that are truly friends that are hosting a national show of any kind. Fast paced, highlights, analysis - we're going to laugh and have fun. We're talking about sports and yes,
there are some serious conversations these days but mostly it's fun. We're talking about sports for a living! You will get some opinion in there as well, maybe more than when I started at ESPN 10 years ago, but it's not about us, it's about the highlights, serving the viewers and kind of giving them something to start their day with. If they're at the coffee machine at work, they can say, "gosh did you see what the Bears did last night?" We're giving them information, tools and just stuff to talk about. Because at the end of the day, sports is an escape which is my true belief! That's what we hope to provide to help everyone begin their day.

AM: What are you most excited about now that you're back at ESPN?

SS: I'm excited about talking about all the sports again. I have loved the last 4 years of talking about the NBA. The last 9 months or so I got back on the road with SportsCenter on the Road
covering everything from the Super Bowl, Masters - you name it. My main focus for the last 4 years has been the NBA and I am more in love with it than I have ever been before but, I have
missed football and college basketball - to be able to talk about that again. I have such a history with these sports in covering it during my career in various markets that I can't wait to get back to that while hanging on to all of my NBA stuff as well as it's important to me. I'll just add that I'm still going to be going on the road with SportsCenter on the Road. That means so much to me because I thrive in the chaos of the road. I love it when I'm standing court side before Game 5 of the NBA Finals with Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry and Lebron James warming up and somehow I have to stay focused and on task and host an hour long show and do interviews - that's the chaos that I just love! I really wanted to hang on to that aspect of it as well. So lots of in-studio and on the road as well.

AM: We enjoyed having lunch with you and getting to know you, what are your favorite workouts or activities that you do to stay toned and in shape?

SS: I honestly think that my stress forces me to stay in shape. I have to have an outlet especially since there is so much stress. There's travel as I'm always on airplanes a lot. I will say that I do eat pretty well and that's important to me and especially with having kids and trying to set a good example.

Sometimes it's about having a 10 minute workout in a hotel room - literally! Fortunately, there's no TV cameras or mirrors to see what I'm wearing or doing. And if I only have those 10 minutes, then that is what I will do! It sets the tone for my day - hey I'm 44 so I have to work on it. I like to eat well and stay active doing something. I am really looking forward to having a set schedule now that I am back in CT because now I can get on a set schedule with workouts
as well and not just figuring out how to squeeze them in depending on time zone or based on what the hotel gym has. I have done a lot of boot camps during the years. I am really interested
in trying pilates and yoga as I have never done them before at all. I think I need that in my life for my body and my brain.

AM: When you're not at work what's your personal style when you're out and about with your family or taking personal time for yourself?

SS: Right now, jeans and flats. My favorite shirts are by Rails, they're just casual shirts. I love flannels and denim. Many times my hair is up, I wear very little makeup - I don't know, I'm really
casual and simple. I'm in the shower and out of the house in 25 minutes. Maybe it's because I have to dress up so often to put makeup on and to care about what I look like.

Hey, when I wear what I want to wear, I feel like it's presentable and cute - I can go to dinner in this. But I could also go to my kid's basketball game and not feel overdressed. Having that
flexibility is important to me. I'm just really, really casual. Sometimes, my mom says, "Sage you're going to the grocery store, you need to dress up a little bit and make sure that you put
some blush on." And I'm like, "mom, you're lucky that I don't have my baseball cap on today!"

It's all about being TOTALLY casual and having a balance from what I have to do when I'm at work and have to present myself as somewhat glamorous. You fake it until you make it!

AM: How do you take time for yourself to recharge and just to come up for air?

SS: That's what I need to work on because right now, it's not enough. That's honestly the biggest thing on my list now that I am coming back to a set schedule in CT. Mon - Thurs set hours and off by 11am. Up early because I have to figure out the sleep patterns first! In the past, I have done a lot of horseback riding - being an equestrian has been a big part of my life. I don't know and I'm so glad that you asked because I have to figure it out. For sure, I know I have to keep myself mentally healthy as well as physically. But I don't think of taking time for
myself and that's probably my biggest fault. So if you have any suggestions, I will take them from anyone and anywhere! Maybe yoga will be that for me. I need to figure it out for sure!

We're so excited to see Sage on SportsCenter AM starting Aug 28th as well as SportsCenter on the Road. You can also catch her on 2018 Miss America co-hosting with ABC's The Bachelor,
Chris Harrison on Sept 10th in Atlantic City.

Read more from the Aug Issue and read Welcome Back Sage in mag.

CARPETS, CARE & CHIC WITH ZURI HALL

We sat down with Emmy Winning journalist, E! News Correspondent and TV Personality, Zuri Hall. We chatted with her about family, her recent partnership to shed a light on MS, what awards season is like and her sense of style, as well as staying balanced in the industry. 

ATHLEISURE MAG: You're a busy lady! As we know you're constantly on air, we'd like to know about your connection to this survey about MS.

ZURI HALL: I was excited to partner with Genentech as my Aunt was diagnosed with MS 3 years ago and for me, it was my first personal connection to the disease. I had done a human interest story about this for a local news story – so I was getting a little familiar. But it wasn’t until it hits home that you started to say, “what does this mean, what does it do.” 

So she was diagnosed and over the last few years her symptoms have delveloped and progressed, and unfortunately, have gotten worse. When  I partnered with Genentech, we found that MS Mindset Survey – a lot of their findings reflected what I was seeing my aunt go through when it came to her symptoms. My big takeaway from the survey was the unpredictability of MS symptoms. Some of the things she is dealing with is wobbly legs. Sometimes it's cognitive issues, blurred vision, and she’s hit with fatigue. So she knows roughly what she’s dealing with, but she doesn’t know when they will pop up. So since it is so unpredictable, it’s hard to know or plan around those things whether you are directly dealing with it or are the caregiver that is involved. You can’t plan a week in advance when you have no guarantee of how you will be feeling tomorrow. 

So one of the big findings was that about 85% of those with MS have said that they have missed social engagements because their symptoms have come into play when they didn't think that they would. 87% oddly enough, a higher percentage of support partners and caregivers, have also missed out on events because their partner had a flare up or had an issue. 

For example, my aunt told me that she went to a baseball game once and it was a big venue, so while she was excited to go out with your co-workers and friends she had to commit to it. She gets to the field and then 30 minutes in she realized she had to go because she sensed that she had issues with her wobbly legs as they had been giving out over the previous days and that anxiety of not knowing if that would happen during the game was something that she was dealing with. She would rather remove herself completely from this social situation that she was looking forward to then risking something that she couldn’t predict to happen during the game and having to explain herself or to create a socially awkward situation to those that were there. There are also issues with urinary problems, like not being able to control your bladder – she’s nervous when it hits, then she has to go. For her, it’s not just about being awkward for her but she doesn’t want it to be weird for others and having to have them figure out how to talk about her disease. She is an independent, small and feisty woman and we love her. So it’s interesting to see how this disease begins to dictate the social decisions that she makes. 

Another finding that this survey focused on is the day to day activities which hits home for us. She is the person who loves to host and she has a beautiful home that she has decorated with love and she invites all these people and we are a massive group. Brothers, sisters, cousins and more – we come over, she cooks, and cleans. She is the domestic goddess as well as a corporate goddess. Nowadays, this is really hard for her. We’re going home for Thanksgiving and I don't know why she is going to do this, but she wants to do all the things that she has always wanted to do. She loves hosting our family and dinners. I love her because she refuses to let this disease get the best of her but it does steer the decisions that she has to make leading up to doing so. For me, I look inside and figure out what I can do to support her to make things easier. 

One of the findings in the survey was that more than 80% of the people that live with MS were asked how they could be helped and what service could be offered to them, the top takeaway was that they wanted someone to help them with groceries, in the kitchen, household chores, etc. I think a lot of us, me included, underestimate the impact that this can make. You sit back and say, “really you just want me to put a box of cereal away for you?” But for someone who is dealing with fatigue and is exhausted – it helps. She has told me that mixing a bowl of dressing for more than a few minutes tires her out depending on the day. Her muscles don’t do what they used to do and they don’t act the way they used to. 

There was a time when she visited me in LA this summer. She was teaching me how to make her baked bean recipe and she went to check on it in the oven and accidently flipped the pan and the beans went everywhere.  It was sad because she was frustrated in that moment and she doesn’t want to show signs to the disease and we had had amazing days together with her husband (my uncle) and everything was fine and things were great. It felt great as you know she had the disease, but you felt like not really and then it comes out and reminds you. It lets you know that it could happen at anytime and you have to deal with it.

Some of the things that I want to encourage other people to do is to be patient and understand what your loved one is going through and the symptoms. This way, when it happens you know what they are going through and you can be considerate. When the beans happened, there was a moment when I thought about the beans, but then I had to remember this is what my aunt is going through because we’re not at a point where there are daily constant reminders. I caught myself and knew it was beyond her control and so I came from a place of love and patience and I let her know that I would clean it up and we’ll buy more beans, take a seat etc – it let’s her feel more comfortable and less of an awkward situation. I don’t want her to feel that she is a burden and it helps. She says that she feels like it is her own burden to bear as she doesn’t want people to pity her. But I have found that offering my help and services in specific ways – she takes me up on those offers. 

During the holidays I will be offering to put the dishes away, to run out to Kroger or the grocery story to get something that she has forgotten. I will say, "Aunt Mel, take  a rest." I was talking with one of our nurses yesterday and she was saying that the big things to keep in mind that asking “what do you need” is not enough as it’s so open ended. For fiercely independent people they don’t want to give you a laundry list. But when they are specific asks it helps and gives them the time. Plus we take this for granted. 

The survey, after diving in, lets me see how much the findings there are mirroring my aunt’s experience as well as my own. With the holidays here, this encourages support partners and caregivers to be more proactive during this time as well as all year around. 

AM: What is your partnership like in terms of your role in this initiative?

ZH: For me the partnership is about this moment, this time and getting people to understand the results of the MS Mindset survey. Don’t just end there with the info, but this survey is telling you what people with MS need and let’s do something about it. It's about sitting down and encouraging support partners/cargivers to what they can. Many times, you forget about the other party. There is a person who is there dealing with MS and so of course you’re not thinking about the support person; however, they are there and they need to be educated. People should go to your local support groups, advocacy groups and learn more via National MS Society.

AM: Obviously, I was aware of MS, but not the depth of it until a few months ago, when I styled one of my clients who is an entertainer and although she performs, is on stage etc – behind the scenes there are a lot of struggles. It’s amazing that she is able to stay on tour, hit the road, dance etc with the unpredictable nature of this disease!

ZH: When I sat down with Tamia (R&B Singer) who is very public about her disease, so many people are dealing with this and we are all so close by just a few degrees to someone who is. It’s ok to know that you don’t have everything figured out as you can’t really prepare for it as things get dumped in your lap. But to know there are resources is the most important thing. There is education to be had across the board from those with MS and those who support or are the caregivers to someone who is. 

AM: What was your journey to get to E!?

ZH: Getting to E! was a long winding road. I started out winning a competition to be the face of a local TV station in Indiana. I was there for a year and MC’ing for the Pacers and then that opened the door to another job in Ohio and I was hosting another show which allowed me to anchor the evening news down in Texas and that got me to NY to host a show for Fuse (music countdown show), which led to MTV and then E! It was all over the map. The last year and 3 months at E! have been like the best. They chal-lenge me in really good ways. My skillset makes sense for what they need and what they want. Everyday is different. We just launched a new daytime show, E! News Live recently. Exciting times.

AM: How do you prepare for your celeb interviews?

ZH: It’s really about – I mean for us being that we’re E! and they’re celebs, so we want the scoop. I tend to know a lot about their personal lives and what is going on. Because I come from a creative background I actually really appreciate the art in what they are creating and what they are there to talk about. I feel that most celebs, musicians, etc appreciate and recognize those that appreciate and recognize that. So they are more likely to open up about the extra stuff if they believe that you care about the stuff that you should be caring about, and I do. So my preparation is understanding what the film is about, why they took on a certain project – have they had past ones that led them to this point and what it took for them to get into a certain character. Reading any article or interview surrounding that project before I talk to them. Because the last thing that they want to do it to regurgitate the same thing that they have said about 73 times during that junket. They want to be challenged and sparked and they get excited. They’re working but they prefer to enjoy it and it makes it fun!

AM: And for the Red Carpet?

ZH: Red Carpet is chaos and I just get stressed when I think about it. It’s one of those things that you do as much as you can and then you just throw it out the window – you go with the flow. You have so much talent – Brad Pitt for one second and then you have Angelina Joli and you have her and all these people bottle necked. As you talk to Brad, you  have George Clooney walk by and the publicist is pulling people and you only have a few questions that you can ask as you’re getting wrapped as you start. It's a high pressure situation. So it’s one of those things that it’s just like I know a little bit about a lot – so you go with the flow, you make moments as you can’t really tackle issues there. You just want people to toast champagne with you or to make a joke or slip up and say something silly. Carpets are about moments and they make great content for the internet.

AM: How do you stay balanced during this season?

ZH: For me I need to get more into the fitness side, I'll be honest – I’m lazy and I have my mom’s genes which works for me. I am getting to that point where you feel it - you walk up the stairs and realize that it takes more time than before - just a moment guys. So I go to the gym with my boyfriend every now and then as he is healthy. For me, it’s about mental health honestly and I’m really into and value mindfulness and trying to be present and balanced. I’m reading a book right now – 'Present over Perfect' because especially in my line of work I am open to public scrutiny and waiting for people to judge you, Instagram you etc. You post a photo I’m waiting for comments, likes etc. I go on E! News I’m going to get tweets from people - maybe they liked what I wore, what I said about Rhianna etc and you get caught up with not being in that moment. We do these carpets and awards shows and I have to look back and say wow you were at the Oscars – my pictures tell me what my last year has been. I have started to dedicate time for me. I will carve out 60 minutes to say I’m busy so that I can not be busy and take time for me – mindfulness above all so that I can be happy/peaceful, whether it's taking time to read or whatever it takes to get to my happy place.

AM: What is your personal style versus what you wear on the show which we love?

ZH: Thank you! I would say that personal style is casual chic - I know that that sounds generic! I'm a midwest girl through in through - I'm from Ohio and I like to be super comfortable, you will never see me wearing heels that I don't have to be wearing. Because comfort over everything is key for me. So I'm a jeans and T-shirt girl. I feel the most confident and sexy and in control when I am in a fitted pair of high wasted jeans with a loose v-neck t-shirt and bootie. If you see me in a bootie, then you know that I'm trying. If I'm not on a red carpet, I'm in sneakers at this point.

I would say overall, E! News - Urban Chic with a dash of glam. My style is very much influenced by my years in NY as I was here for about 2.5/3 years. So definitely I appreciate the leathers and dark colors. I appreciate the black on black on black. My stylist is convincing me to put color back into my wardrobe.

For the glam, I'm in LA now - come on it's E!, The Kardashians you have to have a bit of glam. I like to do the full face, the hair, I let my glam come through in this area. The clothes tend to be more timeless, chic and classic. 

For the most part, I'm pretty chill and for the most part I LITERALLY love athleisure and I'm not just saying that because you're here as I don't work out. But I just discovered gym wear and it's a whole new world! I just discovered Fabletics and I love Kate Hudson's line. I tried it for the first time when I met her and I was like, "this jumpsuit is amazing." I can move and I'm so free! So they  sent me more stuff and now I just pretty much live in athletic wear.

AM: We always say that athleisure can be broken down into core, essential and luxe. Core is that which is meant to hit the gym (sport bras, tap shorts, etc), essential items that are a hybrid that can be worn in the gym and out (the capris,  tanks, etc mixed with layers or not) and then luxe which are the jetset components that include your leggings paired with a fun cashmere and a leather jacket which allows you to hit the ground running once you touch down.

ZH: Absolutely - so many ways to style it and again it's so comfortable. At this point in my life, comfort is key girl!

AM: We love your #AlphaBabe movement. We're a huge proponent of it but can you tell our readers about this  and what made you want to do it?

ZH: For me when I first have a vision for #AlphaBabe, I wanted a place where young millennial women could go to support one another and to develop tools where they could navigate the first few years of their career. 

I got where I got to by the grace of God and stumbling into things and figuring it out as it went. Looking back, I felt like it didn't have to be that hard honestly. If there had been just one person to tell me about the right way to make a demo reel, to craft a resume, or the right way to go to my boss' office to ask for a raise - certain things would have been easier. 

For me it is a place where we can celebrate substance and style. You don't have to choose. That's what I'm trying to get across with the message. You can be Alpha and strong and unapologetic as a leader - a boss in your work environment and you can totally be a babe. There is nothing wrong in saying that. You're pretty, you can style yourself up and these two things can co-exist. That's exciting when you find that balance and it doesn't need to be one vs the other which is really hard in a culture of comparison (via social) where people tend to focus on the babe part. At the end of the day the likes, re-tweets - it doesn't really matter. This is a place where you can be both and it's great to be so!

PHOTOGRAPHY COURTESY | Zuri Hall

Read More from the Dec Issue