A DECADE OF INTRIGUE | HISHAM TAWFIQ

For the last 10 years, we have enjoyed NBC's The Blacklist where we are introduced to Raymond "Red" Reddington (James Spader) a former ex-US Naval Intelligence officer who became a prominent criminal and has evaded the FBI and been on their Most Wanted fugitive list for decades. He voluntarily gives himself up to FBI and lets them know that he has created a list known as the Blacklist. In his exchange to inform on their operations, he wants to receive immunity from prosecution as long as he works exclusively with FBI Elizabeth Keen (Megan Boone).

We learned about their relationship with this rookie agent, Blacklisters and Dembe Zuma, played by Hisham Tawfiq who is his number 2. We have seen him be his confidant and navigate his way to joining the FBI himself! We caught up with him to talk about his service in the military, being a first responder, how he got into the industry and his role in the series.

If you have yet to watch The Blacklist, this interview will include discussions about plot points about the show and specifically Season 9 and the current and final season, Season 10 which is airing now.

ATHLEISURE MAG: In doing the research into your backstory, you have always fostered your work in the arts as well as being a literal super hero with your time in the Marines and being a firefighter in the FDNY for 20 years while still focusing on being an entertainer, when you were growing up, what did you want to be?

HASHIM TAWFIQ: When I was growing up, I had dreams of becoming a pilot! And I think that at the time, to be a pilot, you had to have 20/20 vision so that quickly left my vision. But I was always an outdoors type of person. I was always into physical activity and I think my dream was to be a football player, but then I got injured. I took a dance class and I fell in love with dance and that was my introduction into theater and that allowed me to make that transition. But, my ultimate dream was to be a pilot.

AM: Tell us about your earliest memory as an actor and what was the path for you to decide that this was also something that you wanted to do?

HT: In the 90’s I started to dance and theater and I was doing this intensive acting and I went to this workshop which also had students that included Denzel Washington and Debbie Allen. It was at that moment what I took that class that I realized that I really liked this and I could see myself doing this as a career. But at the same time, I was already a firefighter, so there was already this struggle between being a firefighter and pursuing this career as an actor.

AM: How did you end up being a firefighter as you were Station Chief for the FDNY in Harlem?

HT: So when I was in the Marines, I already started thinking about what I would do when I came out. I took all of the tests, I took police exams, corrections, and I knew nothing about the fire department. There was a flyer in my home from this organization called the Vulcan Society which is an organization of Black Firefighters (editors note: the Vulcan Society was founded in 1940 and is a fraternal organization of black firefighters in NYC). At the time I was coming out of the Marines, out of 10,000 NYC firefighters, less than 2% were African American. The Vulcan Society was active in the inner-city high schools to recruit people of color to the fire department. I came home and I saw that postcard and I filled it out. Like I said, I knew nothing about the fire department, but I filled it out and I started learning about the job and the hours. I was a physical person and I like to get dirty and dusty and all of those type of things. I found out that it was an exciting job and that it was something that I would love to do. At the time, I was a Correction Officer at Sing Sing when they called me and I left that and went to the fire department and never looked back.

AM: Wow! A lot of people talk about the training or you see it when you’re watching shows like FOX’s 9-1-1, its spinoff 9-1-1: Lone Star and ABC’s Station 19 which are my favorite first responder shows. Did you find training to be a firefighter difficult?

HT: No ha ha! I guess because I was just out of the Marine Corp and I think that that was the most toughest thing that I had ever experienced physically! So when I went into the firefighter training, it was kind of easy for me. I was a squad leader and I stood out. There was nothing really about the Firefighter Academy that was challenging for me. Like I said, I had just gotten out of the Marine Corps and that was the most challenging thing that I had done. I remember taking the physical and it was a breeze for me and I remember blowing through that. People were like, “oh man, this guy is moving through it!” Being fast, being physical and being strong is part of my attributes and that’s what led me to go towards those kind of jobs.

AM: Were you still acting while you were being a firefighter?

HT: By this time, I was dancing with a dance company ha! So, when I was a correctional officer and a firefighter, I would spend my weekends going to rehearsals for dance and I slowly transitioned that into the theater. So I started doing plays, but I always had my firefighter job and it was one of the reasons that I took it. Not only because of the adrenaline rush, but I knew that as a firefighter, I had a lot of time off and I used that time off to do all of the things that I was passionate about.

AM: In your acting career, you have done a lot of things on the stage and a number of TV shows from NBC's Law & Order to The Blacklist, do you find when you’re preparing for a role for the stage vs. on TV that it is a different process for you?

HT: Yes! I love the theater because you get time to really rehearse, practice and to really live in these spaces. When you're with the people that you’re working with, you get to create and work through the costumes. It’s just a different process that goes into theater that I really love! I love being being on TV too! There is a different way that you have to create and prepare for theater then you do with TV or film. I love that process in theater.

AM: I remember when The Blacklist started that it would be a show that I was going to enjoy. I’m a huge fan of James Spader (Stargate, Secretary, Boston Legal) as well as Amir Arison (Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, Billions, The Dropout) and Harry Lennix (The Matrix Reloaded, Ray, Billions) that are core and original castmembers with you. There have been so many people that have been guest stars with the show from Stacy Keach (Mickey Spillane’s Mike Hammer, Sin City: A Dame to Kill For, Blue Bloods), David Costabile (Breaking Bad, Suits, Billions), Anthony Michael Hall (Sixteen Candles, The Breakfast Club, The Goldbergs) the late Lance Reddick (Oz, The Wire, BOSCH), etc. You play Dembe Zuma. How did you find out about the show and what did you know about your character when you read for the part?

HT: I knew nothing! My character wasn’t in the pilot, but that was the only episode that I missed. After the pilot, James requested that he should have a team around him. So initially, I was this Muslim African Freedom Fighter who was rescued by Red from human trafficking as a child. So my audition was all improv. I had no lines so I just made up a backstory that came from my life and experience. It was only supposed to be for 1 episode, so there wasn’t really any pressure or angst about it. Then, it turned into something different than what I had anticipated or even expected! But that was that journey of that process. But it wasn’t like I was initially being brought into a series regular role! But this is where we are after 10 years!

AM: You’re character has such a presence whether it was when he wasn’t talking, or he was a man of few words and now having more evolved storylines, how do you approach your character?

HT: I really draw a lot from personal experiences! I take a lot from my personal life and I put it onto this character. I wouldn’t say that it was easy, but what I have learned especially in not taking the traditional route in acting – the hard thing for me was getting the training and learning how as well as what tools need to be used in order to tell a story. I pull from these experiences that I have had from getting into character and doing all of that, that’s the easy part because I have had such a colorful life. So it was just getting the training and learning about pulling the different emotions and experiences so I could put them into Dembe.

AM: Up until Season 9, we see Dembe and Red and their dynamic and you really create a sense of humanity and a bit of a moral compass for him. What was it like to play off of James Spader?

HT: The interesting thing was, I didn’t know anything about James Spader! Luckily for me I didn’t come in with all of these notions about him so it worked out great. As I started to work with him, that’s when it really became evident to me. He is so intense and that’s when I was like, “oh My God, this guy!” It’s not even that I’m working with James Spader – it was that I am working with this extremely talented human being. You know, our chemistry – we just have it! Anytime we got into a scene, it was like these sparks just flew whether we were improving certain things or reading off the page, we have always had this amazing chemistry. It’s an amazing thing to have and to play off of and I am greatly appreciative of!

AM: In Season 9, your character joins the FBI! What do you think about this twist in the storyline and being able to work in a different way with other members of the cast? We’re assuming that you played off of things in your own life to bring these nuances to life as well for the switch in his character.

HT: Absolutely, it was definitely different especially going from not really speaking that much to downloading the Task Force on who the next Blacklister is so it was definitely a shift. I went out and got myself an acting coach to make sure that I was approaching it right and putting on a whole other layer of Dembe which was challenging but also exciting. I welcomed it and also enjoyed it. A lot of people disagree and say that I should go back with Red! I think that as an actor, it was something that I definitely welcomed and I had fun playing with even though I missed the chemistry that I had with James.

AM: Before we delve into the final season, how do you describe Dembe and what are the similarities between you and the character? Have you been able to give back feedback to the writer’s room in terms of how Dembe develops?

HT: Oh absolutely! I think that in the beginning, because Dembe wasn’t scripted, there was just so much that we didn’t know. It wasn’t until Season 3, 4 or even 5 that I started having conversations with John Bokenkamp (The Call, The Blacklist, The Blacklist: Redemption), the creator of the show and we talked about who is Dembe and what did he look like? We knew he was Muslim and we didn’t get to see any of that so it was really important to me especially since I am Muslim that we make sure that we are authentic about that and that we show that. They agreed. We talked a lot and we had a lot of conversations and we see him praying and doing these things which meant a lot to me. That’s also hard to let go because I’ve been part of building this character and flushing him out as opposed to this character being presented to me. I enjoyed all of that!

Who is Dembe? Dembe because of the evolution of how he came to be, Dembe is kind of me! I kind of consider myself a quiet guy and I think that the only thing that you won’t see Dembe do is that I’m a funny/silly guy! Sometimes we see Red and Dembe have these card games and to play like kids. We see a little bit of that. A lot of Dembe is really me minus the violence.

AM: What can you tell us about the final season or what should we be looking for?

HT: I think that we all know that all The Blacklisters are coming after Red. We also know that because they’re coming after Red and because of Dembe’s affiliation with him, now he is also in danger. It just sets the stakes really really high. I think that what it also does is that Dembe has dealt with conflict, but now he’s really conflicted because of not being with Red in this most dangerous time since he is on the Task Force. I think that what we’re going to see play out in Season 10 is this back and forth of being able to choose a side. At the same time, being this moral compass and what that conflict looks like.

AM: You have been in this cast for the past 10 seasons. What are some of your favorite moments from the show?

HT: I loved when I got to play with Mr. Solomon, Edi Gathegi (Twilight, The Twilight Saga: New Moon, X-Men: First Class) character – I love that episode with the pool balls and getting tortured and going after him. That one stands out. There are so many, but I also loved just because of how I came into acting and all of these people that I looked up to. I loved the time that I got to play with Benga who was in Season 9 – being my daughter and being kidnapped that was an amazing episode for me. I loved the episode where we got to explore my religion and faith not only personally, but also with Dembe. Then there are some amazing episodes in Season 10 that I can’t speak on, but I’m really excited about that. There’s one episode where we have never seen about Dembe. I’m excited to see how that played out. Out of 10 years, there have been so many beautiful moments as you know. But those are some of the moments that I really enjoyed.

AM: What will be your biggest takeaway from being part of this production?

HT: That’s hard, I learned so much watching James and how he works and how specific he is. Just how he approaches everything – that’s something that I will take away from it. Being prepared for the unexpected because this was definitely unexpected. In 10 years, I’ve grown so much, I’m a whole different person and there’s so much growth that I have had. Not just professionally, but also personally. The biggest takeaway in terms of the craft is just seeing how dedicated James was and learning how he approaches it and putting those tools in my pocket as I’m moving forward.

AM: What will we see you doing next? Are there any projects that you’re able to share with us or things on your bucket list whether it’s in front of or behind the camera?

HT: I’m a Sci-Fi geek, so I’d definitely like to do anything Sci-Fi! I love westerns so I would love to be a cowboy, but after a show like this, I’m also in love with doing something that doesn’t have fun and just a drama between me and my son, me and my wife or something like that. Anything and everything! I’ve also been working on a documentary about my life so all of those things, I would love to tackle. That’s the scary thing about not knowing what’s next up for me professionally. Like I said, I would love to be an astronaut in space or riding around on a horse!

IG @hishamtawfiq

PHOTGRAPHY CREDITS | PG 104, 106, + 113 Will Hart/NBC | PG 109 Virginia Sherwood/NBC | PG 110 Scott Gries/NBC |

Read the MAR ISSUE #87 of Athleisure Mag and see A DECADE OF INTRIGUE | Hisham Tawfiq in mag.

THE SCIENTIST OF MOVEMENT | TANISHA SCOTT

This month's cover is 3X MTV VMA nominated Creative Director, Choreographer, Performance Coach and dancer, Tanisha Scott. You've seen her iconic work as a choreographer with Sean Paul in Gimmie the Light and has continued to work with an array of artists from Beyoncé, Rihanna, Lil Nas X, Drake and more. She currently serves as Creative Director for Lizzo, Cardi B and H.E.R. A number of videos and performances that she created have become part of major cultural moments in Hip Hop and those movements have found their way into memes, Tik Tok videos and on an array of dance floors.

Her ability to bring her love of dancehall, freestyle and knowing what is natural to the body transcends her work for music videos across genres, touring and award show performances. We talk about her love for dance, getting into the industry, those she collaborates with, continuing to add to her skill sets and how she continues to leave her mark.

ATHLEISURE MAG: What was the moment that you realized that you fell in love with and wanted to dance?

TANISHA SCOTT: Honestly, dance has been part of my life and I can literally say this without it being cliché – for forever. My parents are Jamaican , my father loves music and he was actually a DJ on the side – not just house parties, but he would go out with his friends and spin. Before I was even born, music was all around within the family. I knew it was something that was super special to me not only because of my shadow – my brother, my sister and my dad playing, but I just knew how much it helped me feel good. It helped me to really open up. I’ll tell you this, when I was really, really young, I had an issue with stuttering and I found that through dance, I didn’t have to speak that much and I can speak through movement and I can express myself and people would smile and laugh and would want to dance too without me having to actually say something and feeling insecure about it. I knew I loved dance and that dance was actually a part of me and a very important part because of that journey. I didn’t realize that until I got older and saw that it actually made a difference for me in my life.

AM: That’s amazing. You were a background dancer for Mya when you first started. How did you transition from being a dancer to a choreographer and adding that to your body of work?

TS: Yeah, reluctantly, I can say that I didn’t want to call myself a choreographer for about a year after Gimmie the Light happened. Gimmie the Light happened because my dearest closest friend, Director X (DMX What’s My Name, Sean Paul Gimmie the Light, Drake Hotline Bling) is also from Toronto. He and Taj Critchlow who is his longtime manager have been so close to me! He didn’t ask me to choreograph the video, he told me I had to! I fell into it, I was scared out of my mind not knowing what to do because I felt that I was a freestyle dancer and that’s all I knew – how would I put moves together for other people? He just told me to figure it out. It wasn’t until I reached out to my mentor, Luther Brown (Janet Jackson Dammmn Baby, Lizzo Juice, Ozuna BAILA BAILA BAILA) who is the king of Hip Hop and stepping in Toronto and he mentored me and a bunch of other kids. It wasn’t until I reached out to him and let him know that I didn’t know how to choreograph and how would I do it? He broke it down to me and said what I would do especially is go to the mirror, figure out some moves, see what looked good on me, put it on some people and make sure that it looks good on them and there you go – from the basic aspect of it.

I choreographed the music video and I was like it’s not going to be much. Sean Paul was singing this song which was older at the time when it came out in North America. Being of Jamaican descent, you know that we’ve heard this song for forever. So it was like, I’m going to do this video for Sean Paul – yes. It wasn’t anything that I had to think of when it came to the movement because it’s what we did in the clubs, in the basement parties so I put all of our moves together and felt how it should flow – did the video and that’s it. Nobody knew that Gimmie the Light was going to blow up the way that it did in North America! No one had any clue of it. That’s how it happened and then before I knew it, people were like, you need to get this choreographer. I would say, the dancer, because I danced in that video but I didn’t feel like a choreographer – so reluctantly it happened – blame it on X!

AM: How does your love for dance, dancehall and being from Toronto inspire and infuse your work?

TS: Oh gosh, I think the reason why it inspires my work is that it’s the only thing that I know innately that I wasn’t taught to do. I was not taught in any kind of professional dance when I was younger, we just did dancehall because I come from a Jamaican lineage, music is all around and that’s what we’re going to do right? I just dance the way I knew to dance where it’s already in my blood. So that, no matter what project I do, you’ll always find a piece of it. I find that my choreography is organic and authentic. I don’t do traditional movement for anything that is cool or in, in style or whatever the trend is. I literally follow suit to what the music calls for. If it’s dancehall, then I’m going to give you dancehall, if it’s Hip Hop, I’m going to give you Hip Hop and if it’s something else, then I am going to give you that. I attribute that to the fact that I am a freestyler where I actually watch and I pickup visually a lot easier and do things that makes me feel good in my body as if I’m about to freestyle as opposed to putting together a segment of moves that are regimented in a specific style or technique of a dance. So I think that that’s how I get to flip flop. You’re always going to get a little piece of dancehall, but at the same time, I’m a battler at heart so if I see somebody do something, I’m going to do it and do it better and that’s the way that I choreograph.

AM: I like that and that’s why it’s authentic because you’re freely leaning into fluidity because that’s what you’re feeling.

As a choreographer, what are you looking for when you’re working with an artist or maybe someone who isn’t even a dancer – is it hard to work with someone like that who doesn’t dance, but they’re going to need to dance for that video? How do you go about that process of making that story and making them feel comfortable and let them dance?

TS: You know what? Would you believe me if I said that I actually prefer artists who don’t dance?

AM: I would actually understand why you would like that because you don’t have to breakdown or have someone unlearn what they do and you can just flow!

TS: Exactly! It’s for this one main reason, they end up becoming a little more fearless in what they do. Because I’m not a trained dancer, I understand the fear or being unsure of how to move, what to do and what looks good. Because of that, I find it very easy to look at someone and tell what their strengths and weaknesses are. I work with both to create something that is signature to them.

For instance, Kelis and Bossy – her whole walk thing, Rihanna obviously with her hips, anything that I do with any artist – Alicia Keys with her walk how she does it to the side and plays the piano with the side – using one hand on the piano but doing it while leaning – it’s so much more interesting to create something that is signature to that person.

Honestly, anybody can choreograph – literally. It’s just a series of movements together to express whatever you want to express. Some people just want to have trendy moves, some people want to tell a story, some people are just a little more intrinsic with their movements – there are an array of things. What gives me joy is working with artists and giving them their own signature imprint so that the choreography is not a Tanisha Scott choreography that so and so is doing. It’s what Tanisha Scott has created that is based off of this artist and that it is an imprint so the dancers look like them, they move in a certain way and that’s what I find more interesting is working with someone from the core and being able to build from the ground up – who are you, what is your persona, what is the zhuzh, what is the story that you want to tell. That is more intriguing and satisfying!

Now, artists that can dance, the palette is open – let’s try tap, let’s do jazz, silks – there is an array of things! What pulls at my heart strings where I just become the scientist of movement, is when I’m like, “ooo this will be amazing” and then you see them blossom, it means the absolute world to me. That is much more fulfilling.

AM: Love that! Going back to Gimmie the Light video, what do you think it is about this video that after all of these years, that reaction is still there? The feeling is still there. Since that video, we have seen tons of amazing things and technologically there are different things, but the song and visually there is that feeling that you still get when you see it. How does it have such staying power?

TS: I’ll tell you something, I feel that it’s because it is so organic and it’s so freeing like you can’t even explain or break it down to how everybody moves in that music video. It was just captured in the right way and it was just a vibe! Like, you can’t fuck up a vibe! Like you can’t not feel a feeling – you know what I’m saying? It wasn’t technical at all! It was just people moving and grooving in a way that was just something that felt good naturally in your body that connected to the music perfectly. Individuals captured it and it made it cool. It was swaggy, it was fun! You had PonyTailz doing the Spidermen, you had Dainty Crime which was a crew of guys in there jumping up and down, it was entertaining. It also didn’t feel like you couldn’t do the moves. Everybody at home wanted to try because it felt like, “oh I think I could do this.” That’s what makes it so good and continues to be so.

It’s like YMCA, everyone can do that and you want to jump in – that’s what I think it is.

AM: I think so too and conversely, we were on set shooting one of our covers and Hotline Bling came out. I hadn’t seen the video yet and we’re all prepping for the shoot and I was asked if I had seen the video. We’re watching this video and I knew it was Director X, but the vibe had elements of Gimmie the Light as well. Of course, I find out that you did that and I can see why I felt those homages to the other video. What was it like being on this project and obviously another Toronto connection – and it was fire!

TS: Yo, Hotline Bling, what made it so special from the beginning is because it was Director X, who had me involved and of course, it was Drake. I remember Drake saying, I need that Tanisha Scott/Gimmie the Light moment. So, I’m like, “let’s do it brother” and I had previously worked with him before. He said he just wanted to let loose – almost like not taking anything too seriously and to just move and vibe. So I was like, let’s go – literally. What made the video so amazing is of course it was beautifully shot, but it was that synergy once again. It was the visuals, it was X's understanding what it takes, it’s Drake that’s part of it. Let me tell you one thing, that man has his finger on the pulse of not what’s new or next, but 2 slots or 4 years ahead. He knew more than anybody, he knew that this was something. He is so smart and he said, let’s just vibe and we had fun. We freestyled and we literally just had fun on set joking around and it became what it became.

Who would have seen me coming up with dances that actually became a meme, people are doing it and it’s a signature Drake move! It was a blessing because I’m working with my friends and we’re honestly friends where we trust each other so much that there’s no micromanaging of anything. It’s like, I’m going to do this and this makes sense to this and it makes sense to that – so let’s do that. Then Drake is like let’s do this and we just made it happen. So trust and just going with your gut and not just doing things that you think is right or what someone else thinks is right.

AM: Well once again, it’s just beautiful and it will be 20 years from now where there will be those relevant elements that have a different vibe in respect to Gimmie the Light but it still has that warmth –

TS: That simplicity.

AM: It’s so simple and I do love an over the top production as well, but I also like when things are paired down and you can focus. No matter how many times you watch it, there’s something that pops up and it just figures that you were involved as well!

So it’s always fun to see your work as a dancer and a choreographer but it’s interesting to see you as both in the same project. Does it feel like a balanced moment when we get to see you as both the dancer as well as the choreographer?

TS: That to me – being a dancer during doing something that’s choreographed, unless I’m freestyling – doesn’t really feel good. But, if I’m on camera choreographing doing what I do, that feels balanced. But if I’m dancing, I can’t perform to my best when I know that I have choreographed for other people are around me and I’m looking for where they are in their space. I’m still thinking as a choreographer as well as what is my artist doing and I feel like I’m cheating – it doesn’t feel good. Because when I dance, I zone out and I let go to be free. In that moment, I’m not on guard. When I’m choreographing and I’m on camera doing choreography or creative, I feel like I’m at home. I’m able to not just express what it is that I do and get the job done, but I want other people to learn as well. There are other levels to creative direction and different aspects of it as well as even for the dancers. There are a lot of things that we can do because the longevity of a dancer is not that long so you have to think of other things to do that can still play into your love of dance – you don’t lose it, but you just evolve.

AM: You look at a person like Debbie Allen who she can still –

TS: I mean queen, queen, queen!

AM: You just look at her and even when you watch her in something that she isn’t dancing in like when she is in Grey’s Anatomy, she has a flow to her movement that when she crosses over to the other side of the room, you’re transfixed!

TS: Preach Kimmie!

AM: I love flow and it doesn’t just exist in dance, but when you see those who are dancers and they still have that style in other portions of their life, it’s beautiful to see! You can tell the flow and musicality that some people have even when there isn’t anything being played.

TS: She doesn’t know this and I never met her but she is such an inspiration.

AM: She’s amazing! She has that eye and you know she’s watching.

There are so many videos where your fingerprint has graced those productions and moments. How is that for you to do it from a video standpoint versus being on someone’s tour with Rihanna versus doing something for TV like the BET Awards? Do you have to think differently Awards? Do you have to think differently for space or just the mediums that are being used?

TS: I do and I’m glad that you asked that question. I think that that’s what keeps me excited because it’s not the same thing over and over again. It allows me to stay on my toes.

So when we breakdown for a music video, a music video has edits and the primary thing about a music video is centering around the artist. So if there is choreography involved, it’s for a specific section. I always have enough dialogue with the director understanding what the environment is – are we dancing in a box, dancing on platforms, dancing on a wet floor, what are the costumes, what is the vision and go from that. I choreograph in sections that I know will be used. If you were to choreograph the whole song, you already know half of that isn’t even going to be seen or used unless the artist is in it. But even so, there are different things that we have to see. That’s one way and how I deal with music videos.

When it comes to tours, I have to now consider not just what the director of the music video is shooting, the type of frame that it is – is it overhead, is it specifically for the camera. With a tour, I choreograph for the naked eye. The naked eye means the expansion of it – it’s entrances and exits because we see everything. You can’t control what one person is seeing when you have thousands of people watching. So it’s the beginning of the song, the ending of the song and how the next song comes in. So it’s the thread that I use and the bigger purpose and I also choreograph the movement for me which is never little. It’s always a lot bigger because I tend to choreograph for those in the nosebleeds that aren’t so close – they have to have some kind of entertainment so that they can see and feel it and you have a successful show.

For an awards show, it’s a hybrid of both. I actually prefer the awards shows because I get to hone in on the director portions that I went to school for about 6 months at the NY Film Academy to learn music video directing. Not so much to be a music video director, I wanted to know how to choreograph and to speak to actors, actresses and dancers and to know what different frames were so I could be better choreographer. So I get to hone in on that when I am creative directing and choreographing the awards shows, I’m able to set the tone – the feeling of this is The Wiz so it’ll be different colors here and there, we have a yellow brick road and we formulate that. Now, how do we put in the choreography into it – this person enters here, that person enters there. Ok great, now with the camera, what do I need to see first? I need a close up shot of the artists walking on the yellow brick road and now I add a steady cam with a 360 turn to a smaller lens where I see 1 person pop up and then the next. We then go to a jib for a wide so I get to utilize everything that I have learned to put together a piece which hopefully, my next dream or chapter, is to be able to do Broadway. That to me is everything from when I do these awards shows because I get to think outside of the box and actually create a real piece. I have my hands in all aspects from set design to lighting – it’s everything to tell what that story is for what I want in that moment.

AM: I really like getting that insight and I expected a lot of what was said, but I really liked hearing about the hybrid environment of an awards show that is a defined box but still a little more open versus other areas. To hear your process in how you work that makes me think of our photoshoots where we’re creating that set, bringing in the team, sketching out the moodboard, bringing in the styling etc to create this concept. So by the time I arrive to the actual set day, I have played so many things in my mind for those hours.

TS: Prep is no joke!

AM: For sure! At some points as you’re actually seeing it all together, you feel like it already happened because you were so immersed and bringing it life in every way.

TS: Oh my God I swear, I think we’re twins!

AM: When you’ve seen videos that you’ve done that have been given various awards, obviously a video is the culmination of what you’re doing, the talent, creative teams, director etc – with all those things coming together and showing everyone’s versatility and work – what does it mean to you to have that award given to a project you were involved in?

TS: I feel so accomplished, so much more than even if I were personally receiving it for myself. When people hire me, I sign a contract in the air – it’s not a real one but it’s where they trust me to deliver to the best. When they are awarded, the team is awarded and/or the video is awarded – I know that I have done my job and that I have gained the trust. I know that what I set out and put out to do happened. I’m definitely a woman of my word. If I say I’m going to show up, I show up. If I say I am going to make something happen, I’m going to make something happen. With these videos, it’s definitely a collaboration – you have a director at the helm, but nothing is independent from one another. The gaffers, the stylists, the stage PAs, like we’re working and a lot of times, you don't know these people and you have never worked with them before, so you have to get on board and have the same common goal. When that’s achieved and it’s achieved with an award at the highest point, I feel so much more pleased with the job because it’s good and then It’s onto the next! It’s all about hurry up and wait and then on to the next.

AM: So with everything that you have done from a video perspective, you’ve also done other things from campaigns to commercials to even working outside of the genre of Hip Hop. You’ve extended the multi-hyphenate nature of your work beyond creative director, dancer and choreographer, but also performance coach. What is a performance coach as you worked with Sarah Jessica Parker for her campaign with Intimissimi.

TS: Ok Kimmie, I like you, I swear you’re asking all the questions. Ok, so a performance coach is involved when there are no specific movements given. But it is having somebody portraying the emotion that they want them to portray through their body through movement. So it can be anything that you do, but it’s just narrowing it down to 10 beats. Now they have the freedom to choose which beat they want to use at this time. They may switch at another time. But it’s always showing you the vein or the box that you need to be within. Like, here are all the treats, you have 20 treats and this is the box. It allows them to be more individuals in that sense.

AM: That’s very interesting. I think it’s great to have those that are multi-hyphenates because they are able to pull from a range of skill sets and that it can be applied to a fuller spectrum so that you’re able to do more than one thing and you have longevity in other places too. The touchpoints that you have crossed by being able to take those skills and to work with George Clooney and large brands etc – it was interesting to see the research and how you have really optimized your talents and why it’s important for people to do more than just one thing.

You’ve been the creative director for Cardi B and H.E.R. which is amazing and what does that role involve for those that may not know what that means in this part of the industry?

TS: I work very closely with both of them and Lizzo is a new client of mine as well in this role. I basically sit with them and it starts off with a conversation about what it is and how they want their music and themselves to translate visuallly numbers that we wanted to add in. It was only supposed to be 1 episode and it ended up being more and it just happened that way.

AM: We saw her recent hosting and performances on SNL. Were you involved in that choreography?

TS: Yes!

AM: Loved it!

TS: It was cute right?

AM: I was watching it and was like, that’s her too.

TS: Yaaas! I did that and I did the creative for it. You know, it’s a new album, it’s going to be a dope album and really good. She is singing, the vibe is so fun – it’s funky. So we’re like, what do we do? SNL is one of the most iconic running shows in the world and I’m like we just need to have people hear and listen to the song. So instead of making a big dramatic set, let’s keep it simple, but golden and sparkly with lights. We just needed to give what the song gives. It was good and a good time and with her hosting too!

AM: Such a fan of her work but to have her hosting and performing on SNL while her series is streaming on Prime Video was amazing.

We’re living in a number of moments right now and in this body inclusivity time we’re in to give space to everyone that has an interest and the talent to do so, I think Lizzo’s show to have someone such as yourself who has worked with so many people to work with these women, really drives home the point that it’s not cool to identify those based on their race, gender, sexuality, body type etc and to dismiss them from opportunities where they can be present and own their gifts. This show is a great way to draw awareness to the opportunities that do exist for people.

TS: I love that! To me, what am I doing this job for – for what? When I think of what my legacy is, I just want everybody to have an opportunity and a moment to have what they want to have and then it’s up to them to continue with it. So give people the tools to be great to do what they want. It’s literally limitless. You’re right, it’s not cool to tell someone that they are not the right look for something. If you have the capability and the chops to do something – absolutely you should. Who is making the decision to defining what the perfect look is for something that is specific. You can have it in your box for what you do, but it should never be generalized.

With the girls, I said listen, we’re going to open up this door and you need to kick it down because I can only do so much for you. There is that aspect of being real and of course, it’s a sisterhood and we’re not here to put anybody down. We’re here to motivate and to uplift but at the same time, I’m very real and I know the kinds of circumstances that I have been through. I’ve been the dark-skinned girl where there was no makeup for you so before for those young kids that didn’t know, there was nothing. So I’d come in with my hat down low because X is calling me and Hype is calling me and telling me to get to set. I’m the first one in the makeup chair and the last one getting my makeup done. So, I’d put on a hat so that no one could see that I didn’t have makeup on. Or the fact that I’m chocolate, you can only have 1 of the 4 girls in the audition that will be chosen. Half the time that I’m auditioning, I’m like, "hey girl, hey girl” who is it going to be this time – well you got the last one so I’m going to be picked this time. You know what I’m saying? I’m not a Size 0 so having to get sample sizes was never the thing so my outfit was always the other outfit. My butt is big. Not being a trained dancer, I couldn’t do pirouettes, leaps and jumps. To this day, I still put myself in class learn and I am in beginners’ classes.

I’m not afraid to learn and that’s also what I tried to teach the girls. You control what happens to you in your life. Regardless of what people want to say and doors that have closed. We have all heard the stories about what happened to Tyra Banks and getting so many doors closed and then of course look at her now. We’ve all had that! But you have to keep pushing and once you push and that door opens, then you have to make sure that you stomp so hard that your foot is cemented into the ground and that they cannot deny you.

That’s what I got, I said don’t look at my face, I put my hat down, I didn’t need makeup, I’ll be there on time, I’ll wear my own outfit – I wasn’t doing choreography, so I was doing freestyle and every time out of those 100 music videos that I did, I freestyled that. I made sure that every single time I freestyled that I would get a standing ovation that would make them clap to make myself memorable. People would say, who was that girl that did this or who is that girl that did that and that’s how I made my mark. I think that that is the reason that I am where I am now because of all the no’s, I took them like a champ and I’m not saying that I never cried or wanted to give up, but I just kept going and every time there was an opportunity, I just said yes and let me figure it out when I get there.

AM: Tell me about the B Project campaign with Good American.

TS: Ok, yaaas! That was so fly to me Baroline Diaz is a VP of A&R at Interscope Records. We had never met before and she reached out to me and a few other women in her network that she didn’t know but admired and wanted all 12 of us to be part of her campaign. It was strictly for boss women that were self-made who didn’t have anything easy but are doing their damn thing. She just wanted to celebrate us and to be able to recognize others. Honestly before I even met her, I thought this sounds fire and when I met her, we had dinner and had some drinks and I’m like, “you are like everything that we need as a network for women that really do truly empower one another.” She doesn’t just say it, she lives it. We even have a chat that we still everyday talk with one another. Baroline is on it! She’s on our Instagram and our socials and she lets us know about so and so who does this and we say, “yes.” Or someone will say that they have something and will ask to get our addresses and they send it out. I’m going to help out someone else in the group with one of her artists. There are a couple of people in that group where we’re all super connected and we’re going to work with each other and help lift each other as well. There are just a lot of convos that go on in the group chat whether we’re helping one another out, sending scriptures or just getting projects going. It is such a great good sisterhood and it’s such a great campaign that I was able to be part of!

AM: It feels like you’re someone who is always flowing from one project to the next project or maybe it’s 80 projects that are all running at the same time! What do you have coming up that you are able to share that you’re excited about?

TS: I can share 2 things – 1 halfway. I am doing something with Disney and in NY so that should be cool! It’s kind of like wowzers and then another thing that is coming soon is that I’m working with Tom Holland and Sasha Lane on this Apple+ TV show, The Crowded Room. I can’t give anything away with this show, but I am so excited! I have the BET Awards coming up with Lizzo! H.E.R. right now is on tour opening up for Coldplay as well as her own tour. I did the creative direction for that. And working with Coldplay too!

AM: Saw that, I’m a huge Coldplay fan. I was like look at her rocking more spaces then just her spaces!

TS: RIGHT! And then Lizzo’s tour is coming and we’ll be announcing soon!

AM: In looking at other things that you have done, I know that at one time you were the choreographer for the Brooklyn Nets Kids dance team! How long were you with them and why did you want to do be involved in this?

TS: I started once Barclays opened up and the Brooklyn Nets became a thing. So I started working with the kids for about 5 years and then I passed it onto the assistant of mine at the time only because I started traveling for work and I couldn’t physically be there! I actually got the job through Jay-Z and my friend who is one of the directors for the female dancer’s entertainment group. For me, I chose to work with the kids because honestly for me, it’s not work for me when I work with children. Because they’re so fearless and they want to try everything, because they’re always so ready to go – I get a lot from them. I just feel really good being one of their first teachers to show them direction on how to learn, how to be, how to respect choreographers, how to walk in and just being part of their journey and helping to help them find who they are whether they want to do this or don’t want to do this as a career. Whether they want to continue or not, to me, that’s the world. I love working with kids.

AM: It’s so important to have a positive influence for dance. I remember growing up that I started in ballet and tap at a really young age. I liked ballet and I remember that the teacher told me that due to my body type there wasn’t a place for me in that arena and that there weren’t any Black ballerinas and that I shouldn’t do it. So, we’re talking the early 80s, I didn’t do it and I just did tap instead. The teacher, I thought at the time, was super nice and I believed what she said.

So to have a teacher that makes sure that you feel seen and allows you to go after something if that is your interest without putting barriers up, made me think that what you did for those kids was amazing.

Now do we know if I would have really done ballet – but I know you shouldn’t tell a 3 or 4 year old that they shouldn’t.

TS: No that’s absolutely right! That shouldn’t have happened. You said it perfectly, we need voices that allow people to be seen and to encourage them and to let them know you’re good enough. You should hone in on what you have and what you want. Golly, you need a second opinion sometimes.

AM: I know! But it was back then, so I didn’t know that there would be a Misty Copeland that would come along and at the time and where I grew up, there was no reference. But it did make me realize from then on that when I would go in whatever space, I fought for myself and place there and if it was something I wanted to do, I would make it happen regardless of what was said.

You also worked for a program with the Block Institute for Autism. Why did you want to be involved in this?

TS: Because I realized that there are things that are bigger than me and that there are things that are more rewarding than the biggest celebrity and the biggest brand. Does it even matter if you can’t enrich the lives of those that are not seen. People are important and if there is a need and especially with dance and what it has done for me and how it makes me feel, I want to be able to work with and teach and empower those that are in my reach. When I got the opportunity it was through a friend of mine that I talked with who worked with the Block Institute. I asked what they did and he explained that they provide extracurricular activities and I asked about dance. He explained that sometimes they would go in the gym and I let them know that I would come in and help and I did it for 3 years.

Life is short. God gave me a gift and it’s not for myself and it’s not for the riches or the popularity – it’s to enrich and to give hope, love and acceptance to others. I’m not keeping this to myself. I don’t like to dance alone! I want everybody to come and dance with me! It was pretty easy and a very quick yes from me. I actually miss doing it and I do want to start something up like that again. I really really do and I just have to make time for it. Thanks for reminding me about it! It’s important.

AM: I liked seeing that. We have been covering various autism stories from Autism Speaks Gala which included noted chefs and Andrew Zimmern was one of the hosts of the night, his son is autistic. It was a beautiful gala at Cipriani’s downtown and then Prime Video has a series streaming now, ‘As We See It’ which focuses on autistic adults and how they engage in the world and their relationship to one another, their families and they aid. It showed the depth of what it means to be autistic and how that can be from one person to the other as it’s not a monolithic experience. So to have someone such as yourself to give of your time in addition to everything you do, to infuse something you love to them is pretty awesome.

TS: Thank you. I really need to do more and it’s not enough.

AM: You do what you can in the hours of a day and I have taken 1 24 hour clock and made it 72 hours!

TS: Ha yes you’re right – let me stop!

AM: So when you’re not doing projects, how do you take time for yourself to have a reset? Because when you’re working with so many people and playing checkpoint, you’re doing 72 hours in a 24 hour cycle and you’re being 25 people!

TS: I’ve never heard it so eloquently stated like that! I literally when I have that time and I’m searching for it right now, I drop everything and go to Jamaica. I’m gone – the beach, the sand, the air – that’s what I need. If I can’t get away, then I’m in my bed watching any type of reality TV – like Love Island!

AM: Have you watched The Ultimatum yet?

TS: I just started! Because I just finished –

AM: Love is Blind!

TS: Yes, I’m still in the first episode, are you watching it?

AM: I already watched it. I am a queen binger because that is how I decompress! I love reality shows for a number of reasons – obviously it’s interesting to be able to see the people, you’re seeing designers coming through and there’s a lot of education that you can learn from the area that’s being covered, regional knowledge, restaurants etc and to know that that’s not you watching it all go down! Because I’m here for the drama as long as it’s not my own!

TS: Yes, same here!

AM: Who are 3 people that assisted you to be where you are today in your career?

TS: Director X, like I said, I’ve never met her before but Debbie Allen. She mentors me from afar there are things that she has done that are just so impressive. I’ll also say, my closest friends that are like my family and my brother and sister. They’re always like, how did you do this – this is great – keep going! Do t his and do that. They also ignite my fire. They give a lot of reassurance from them.

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Read the APR ISSUE #77 of Athleisure Mag and see THE SCIENTIST OF MOVEMENT | Tanisha Scott in mag.