MELODIES OF LIFE | TOBY GAD

We're heading towards the end of the year which always makes us think of our favorite songs! This month, we caught up with Toby Gad a Grammy-winning, multi-platinum songwriter/producer who has written some of our favorite songs from Beyoncé's If I Were a Boy, Fergie's Big Girls Don't Cry and Demi Lovato's Skyscraper to name a few! We wanted to know more about how he got into the industry, his passion for songwriting, collaborating with fellow entertainers and his legacy project, Piano Diaries!

ATHLEISURE MAG: When did you first fall in love with music?

TOBY GAD: First it’s so great to be able to talk with you and thank you for having me! I started with music when I was maybe 5/6/7 years old? My parents had a jazz band and probably when I was already in my mother’s womb, I heard all of these jazz songs that they did. They had a very limited repertoire so I always felt that one day I wanted to be able to write different songs because by age 3 I knew all 30 of the songs that they played!

AM: I love that!

How do you feel that your parents influenced you as jazz artists. My great-uncle was the late tenor saxophonist, Joe Henderson -

TG: Yes! Amazing amazing saxophonist!

AM: I love jazz, I love a lot of the elements of it. How did it influence your music?

TG: My mother always listened to Keith Jarrett, the piano player.

AM: Love Keith Jarrett!

TG: The Köln Concert by Keith Jarrett is probably the one record that I have listened to most in my entire life. It’s accompanied me my entire life and it always makes me feel like home. It’s such a great record and just how Keith Jarrett just improvises. He used to start concerts by just playing one note and then taking it from there without making any plans. He’s just very intuitive and just playing in the moment and I just thought that that was so special. I try – I mean, I’m not that good on the piano. I try to do it myself too sometimes and I lose myself in the piano playing. It’s just such a beautiful feeling when you just watch your hands take you places and explore.

AM: We saw Keith Jarrett a few years ago at Carnegie Hall here in NY and you’re right!

TG: I was there too! I saw him also in Carnegie!

AM: Yes! It was such an amazing show and I felt that I barely breathed during that concert, it was transformative! It was so beautiful and I’m so glad that I had a chance to see him because I had never seen him in person but have heard his records. Such a genius!

When did you realize that you wanted to work in the music industry?

TG: My brother and me, we always had ambitions. At first we emulated our parents and they rehearsed in the living room and when they were done, we would take over the instruments and pretend that we were musicians too. Then I think at the age of 6 or 7, we started to have our own set of a few Rock & Roll songs and we would play them in the intermissions of our parent’s jazz band. When our parents went back onstage, we went through the audience and collected money. That was our first experience of, “wow, we can actually make money with this.”

AM: Exactly!

You’re a music producer, you’re also a songwriter, what’s your creative process like and where do you start in terms of creating a song?

TG: It's very much lyric driven. It's always collaborative. I usually start with a conversation with the artist and see where they are at that time in their life. Are they heartbroken, are they in and out of love, angry, happy? What’s the mood of the day? And out of that conversation, sometimes, quite often something sticks – some line.

Like with BC Jean, when she said, because she was angry at someone, she said, “if I were a boy, I would kick his ass” and I was like, “what did you just say?” She said, If I Were a Boy (editor’s note: originally performed by BC Jean and later that year performed by Beyoncé) and I said let’s get back to the studio now and write this song. That’s often how it happens.

AM: Wow!

What do you love about being a songwriter?

TG: Well, it’s the feeling of coming full circle. Like you do something that starts so small with an artist and you record it and then if you’re lucky, it travels around the world. Then you hear it on the radio wherever you go. That is an incredible feeling when people know you by your song. It’s amazing and I love that.

AM: How do you get inspired and where does that part kick off for you?

TG: It’s always the artists that inspire me. If I know that I am going to work with someone, like recently I worked with James Arthur and Tom Walker and those are voices that I love. I love listening to their voices and working with them, I really looked forward to it and it inspired me to really work hard and to create some good music for them.

AM: You’ve had so many accomplishments from 3 Grammy Awards, Grammy nominations, and so many people that you have worked with. What do you look for when it comes to collaborating with an artist? Are there certain things that a person or group has to have in order to go forward?

TG: It's always important to me that the artists are kind of their own boss, they have something to say, they are driven to collaborate and to write their own lyric with someone like me. It’s very important that the artists are part of the creative process and that the music that they record somehow feels a bit autobiographical. Then of course, the voice. I love great voices. I worked with Celeste recently and there are just some singers who I could hear it day and night.

AM: I mean, when I was prepping for the interview, realizing the work that you have been on from Big Girls Don’t Cry, If I Were a Boy, I Do – these are songs that I really love! What have been some of your favorite projects that you have been part of?

TG: I think that Love Song to the Earth has been a song that we did for the Paris Climate Accord and that was a song that just meant a lot to me. At my heart, I’m an environmentalist as well. I care for the planet a lot and that was a little contribution that we could do and I wrote the song with Natasha Bedingfield, John Shanks, and Sean Paul. We got more and more artists on it and by the end, we got Paul McCartney on it as well. Jon Bon Jovi as well as a number of other big name artists wanted to be on this song too. So that was a great experience!

AM: Well, you have worked with a number of artists, but you have also crossed over into a number of genres in music. Does the process change for you when you’re working on an EDM song versus a pop song?

TG: I think that for me the core is that you can always play it on the piano. A lot of good EDM songs start with a good vocal and from there you can explore all different directions. Now, with Piano Diaries, it’s stripping these songs back down to the bones and it’s just for the vocal performance and the really marvelous piano and maybe a little string accompaniment and then the remixes which go all kinds of places and I just have fun with them. But I think that all of these songs at their core, if you can just play them at the piano, that’s great!

AM: What led you to want to create Piano Diaries and to embark on this legacy project?

TG: Well most of my career has been next song, next artist, next session and trying to get a hit, hit, hit! This is the first time in my life that I feel like I can take a breath, look back, and reflect a little bit. I’m happy to rediscover these songs, but I feel that I wanted to record them in a way – how I hear them today and with artists of today, but then I also want to hear the bones of it. For people to be able to hear how it could sound stripped down and just let the lyric carry it. Then of course, to have fun with these new originals and then make crazy remixes.

AM: I love that! I mean, what is it like to work on something that obviously we already know what it’s like, but now having to reimagine it? Is that stressful or is it almost like a sense of freedom?

TG: There’s a real challenge for the original version with piano vocal to create something that feels new.

AM: Yeah.

TG: And to make sure that the singers perform it in a way that feels very original. Like for instance, the next single, Skyscraper, will be with an artist, Camylio a Universal Republic artist with a very strong voice and he sounds so different from the Demi Lovato version, but he kills it.

The current single, Big Girls Don’t Cry, Victoria Justice has such a beautiful soft voice on it that sounds so different from how Fergie sang it when we did that song back then.

AM: I can imagine that that is such an interesting process.

What was it like working with Victoria Justice on that?

TG: Victoria and I, we go way back! Back when she had this very popular television show, Victorious, we had a song, All I Want is Everything that we wrote and she was 17 years old. Ever since, every few years, we would get together and write more songs. We did a song, Girl Up, to empower young females around the world for the United Nations. Love Song to the Earth, she was part of that. So over the years, we kept in touch and she’s such a precious soul and I love her. We actually, it wasn’t just the song, we spent days together just having fun climbing mountains, going surfing, and going through Downtown LA and we filmed a lot of that and put it on social media so we have 30 or 40 little clips on TikTok and Instagram of us talking, asking each other questions, and doing fun things together.

AM: You have your own record label, Kite Records, can you tell me about that?

TG: Well, about 10 years ago, I started Kite Records and we had several records out. But back in the day it meant that you had an imprint and that the record company takes over. But now, it’s such a new perspective that you can do so much on social media and on your own. I couldn’t wait to restart the label and to hire a few new amazing people. Now in the first 2 days we have almost 70,000 streams which I think is incredible that we can achieve that on our own! I’m so happy about this!

AM: That’s amazing!

Obviously you’re focused on Piano Diaries, but are there other projects that are coming up that you would like to share with our readers to know about?

TG: There is a Christmas single, LITTLE HOUSE IN THE SNOW, that came out on Nov 24th with Marisha Wallace, she is a musical star and I am working with her on an Etta James musical that is still going to be a year or two in the making. We decided to do a Christmas song. We’re promoting it in London, there will be shows in the Royal Festival Hall on Dec 15th and 17th and we’re performing with an orchestra. We get to do this song and there are a few TV and radio performances alongside that and that’s also on our label. So I’m very excited about this! Marisha is such a great singer!

AM: That’s fantastic and I can’t wait to hear more about the Etta James musical as I’m such a fan of her music.

When you’re not producing, writing, or doing other projects, how do you take time for yourself?

TG: That’s a learning process and I think that I am getting better with it after all of these years. I love surfing! Right now you can see where we are.

AM: Um that’s an amazing view! We just had Laird Hamilton and Gabby Reece as our OCT ISSUE #94 cover!

TG: I saw that! Incredible! I’m such a fan of Laird Hamilton and I think that it’s remarkable that early on, he decided that he never wanted to compete, he just wants to have his own experience with the gigantic waves out there with the natural forces. I have a lot of respect for this man!

AM: Do you go to Nazaré and surf big waves?

TG: Ha! I think that the biggest wave that I surfed was maybe 6 – 8 ft! To me that is very big!

AM: We also had Kai Lenny for our MAY ISSUE #89 this year as well on our cover who is also known for surfing those really epic waves! Watching him on HBO's 100 Foot Wave was insane! There’s no way I could do that, but watching him do it is so impressive!

TG: Kai Lenny is such a trailblazer with all of the other things like Foiling, Wing Folling and what he does at Nazaré is unbelievable! He does back flips on those 100 foot waves!

IG @tobygadmusic

PHOTOGRAPHY COURTESY | Toby Gad

Read the NOV ISSUE #95 of Athleisure Mag and see MELODIES OF LIFE | Toby Gad in mag.

THE SCIENTIST OF MOVEMENT | TANISHA SCOTT

This month's cover is 3X MTV VMA nominated Creative Director, Choreographer, Performance Coach and dancer, Tanisha Scott. You've seen her iconic work as a choreographer with Sean Paul in Gimmie the Light and has continued to work with an array of artists from Beyoncé, Rihanna, Lil Nas X, Drake and more. She currently serves as Creative Director for Lizzo, Cardi B and H.E.R. A number of videos and performances that she created have become part of major cultural moments in Hip Hop and those movements have found their way into memes, Tik Tok videos and on an array of dance floors.

Her ability to bring her love of dancehall, freestyle and knowing what is natural to the body transcends her work for music videos across genres, touring and award show performances. We talk about her love for dance, getting into the industry, those she collaborates with, continuing to add to her skill sets and how she continues to leave her mark.

ATHLEISURE MAG: What was the moment that you realized that you fell in love with and wanted to dance?

TANISHA SCOTT: Honestly, dance has been part of my life and I can literally say this without it being cliché – for forever. My parents are Jamaican , my father loves music and he was actually a DJ on the side – not just house parties, but he would go out with his friends and spin. Before I was even born, music was all around within the family. I knew it was something that was super special to me not only because of my shadow – my brother, my sister and my dad playing, but I just knew how much it helped me feel good. It helped me to really open up. I’ll tell you this, when I was really, really young, I had an issue with stuttering and I found that through dance, I didn’t have to speak that much and I can speak through movement and I can express myself and people would smile and laugh and would want to dance too without me having to actually say something and feeling insecure about it. I knew I loved dance and that dance was actually a part of me and a very important part because of that journey. I didn’t realize that until I got older and saw that it actually made a difference for me in my life.

AM: That’s amazing. You were a background dancer for Mya when you first started. How did you transition from being a dancer to a choreographer and adding that to your body of work?

TS: Yeah, reluctantly, I can say that I didn’t want to call myself a choreographer for about a year after Gimmie the Light happened. Gimmie the Light happened because my dearest closest friend, Director X (DMX What’s My Name, Sean Paul Gimmie the Light, Drake Hotline Bling) is also from Toronto. He and Taj Critchlow who is his longtime manager have been so close to me! He didn’t ask me to choreograph the video, he told me I had to! I fell into it, I was scared out of my mind not knowing what to do because I felt that I was a freestyle dancer and that’s all I knew – how would I put moves together for other people? He just told me to figure it out. It wasn’t until I reached out to my mentor, Luther Brown (Janet Jackson Dammmn Baby, Lizzo Juice, Ozuna BAILA BAILA BAILA) who is the king of Hip Hop and stepping in Toronto and he mentored me and a bunch of other kids. It wasn’t until I reached out to him and let him know that I didn’t know how to choreograph and how would I do it? He broke it down to me and said what I would do especially is go to the mirror, figure out some moves, see what looked good on me, put it on some people and make sure that it looks good on them and there you go – from the basic aspect of it.

I choreographed the music video and I was like it’s not going to be much. Sean Paul was singing this song which was older at the time when it came out in North America. Being of Jamaican descent, you know that we’ve heard this song for forever. So it was like, I’m going to do this video for Sean Paul – yes. It wasn’t anything that I had to think of when it came to the movement because it’s what we did in the clubs, in the basement parties so I put all of our moves together and felt how it should flow – did the video and that’s it. Nobody knew that Gimmie the Light was going to blow up the way that it did in North America! No one had any clue of it. That’s how it happened and then before I knew it, people were like, you need to get this choreographer. I would say, the dancer, because I danced in that video but I didn’t feel like a choreographer – so reluctantly it happened – blame it on X!

AM: How does your love for dance, dancehall and being from Toronto inspire and infuse your work?

TS: Oh gosh, I think the reason why it inspires my work is that it’s the only thing that I know innately that I wasn’t taught to do. I was not taught in any kind of professional dance when I was younger, we just did dancehall because I come from a Jamaican lineage, music is all around and that’s what we’re going to do right? I just dance the way I knew to dance where it’s already in my blood. So that, no matter what project I do, you’ll always find a piece of it. I find that my choreography is organic and authentic. I don’t do traditional movement for anything that is cool or in, in style or whatever the trend is. I literally follow suit to what the music calls for. If it’s dancehall, then I’m going to give you dancehall, if it’s Hip Hop, I’m going to give you Hip Hop and if it’s something else, then I am going to give you that. I attribute that to the fact that I am a freestyler where I actually watch and I pickup visually a lot easier and do things that makes me feel good in my body as if I’m about to freestyle as opposed to putting together a segment of moves that are regimented in a specific style or technique of a dance. So I think that that’s how I get to flip flop. You’re always going to get a little piece of dancehall, but at the same time, I’m a battler at heart so if I see somebody do something, I’m going to do it and do it better and that’s the way that I choreograph.

AM: I like that and that’s why it’s authentic because you’re freely leaning into fluidity because that’s what you’re feeling.

As a choreographer, what are you looking for when you’re working with an artist or maybe someone who isn’t even a dancer – is it hard to work with someone like that who doesn’t dance, but they’re going to need to dance for that video? How do you go about that process of making that story and making them feel comfortable and let them dance?

TS: You know what? Would you believe me if I said that I actually prefer artists who don’t dance?

AM: I would actually understand why you would like that because you don’t have to breakdown or have someone unlearn what they do and you can just flow!

TS: Exactly! It’s for this one main reason, they end up becoming a little more fearless in what they do. Because I’m not a trained dancer, I understand the fear or being unsure of how to move, what to do and what looks good. Because of that, I find it very easy to look at someone and tell what their strengths and weaknesses are. I work with both to create something that is signature to them.

For instance, Kelis and Bossy – her whole walk thing, Rihanna obviously with her hips, anything that I do with any artist – Alicia Keys with her walk how she does it to the side and plays the piano with the side – using one hand on the piano but doing it while leaning – it’s so much more interesting to create something that is signature to that person.

Honestly, anybody can choreograph – literally. It’s just a series of movements together to express whatever you want to express. Some people just want to have trendy moves, some people want to tell a story, some people are just a little more intrinsic with their movements – there are an array of things. What gives me joy is working with artists and giving them their own signature imprint so that the choreography is not a Tanisha Scott choreography that so and so is doing. It’s what Tanisha Scott has created that is based off of this artist and that it is an imprint so the dancers look like them, they move in a certain way and that’s what I find more interesting is working with someone from the core and being able to build from the ground up – who are you, what is your persona, what is the zhuzh, what is the story that you want to tell. That is more intriguing and satisfying!

Now, artists that can dance, the palette is open – let’s try tap, let’s do jazz, silks – there is an array of things! What pulls at my heart strings where I just become the scientist of movement, is when I’m like, “ooo this will be amazing” and then you see them blossom, it means the absolute world to me. That is much more fulfilling.

AM: Love that! Going back to Gimmie the Light video, what do you think it is about this video that after all of these years, that reaction is still there? The feeling is still there. Since that video, we have seen tons of amazing things and technologically there are different things, but the song and visually there is that feeling that you still get when you see it. How does it have such staying power?

TS: I’ll tell you something, I feel that it’s because it is so organic and it’s so freeing like you can’t even explain or break it down to how everybody moves in that music video. It was just captured in the right way and it was just a vibe! Like, you can’t fuck up a vibe! Like you can’t not feel a feeling – you know what I’m saying? It wasn’t technical at all! It was just people moving and grooving in a way that was just something that felt good naturally in your body that connected to the music perfectly. Individuals captured it and it made it cool. It was swaggy, it was fun! You had PonyTailz doing the Spidermen, you had Dainty Crime which was a crew of guys in there jumping up and down, it was entertaining. It also didn’t feel like you couldn’t do the moves. Everybody at home wanted to try because it felt like, “oh I think I could do this.” That’s what makes it so good and continues to be so.

It’s like YMCA, everyone can do that and you want to jump in – that’s what I think it is.

AM: I think so too and conversely, we were on set shooting one of our covers and Hotline Bling came out. I hadn’t seen the video yet and we’re all prepping for the shoot and I was asked if I had seen the video. We’re watching this video and I knew it was Director X, but the vibe had elements of Gimmie the Light as well. Of course, I find out that you did that and I can see why I felt those homages to the other video. What was it like being on this project and obviously another Toronto connection – and it was fire!

TS: Yo, Hotline Bling, what made it so special from the beginning is because it was Director X, who had me involved and of course, it was Drake. I remember Drake saying, I need that Tanisha Scott/Gimmie the Light moment. So, I’m like, “let’s do it brother” and I had previously worked with him before. He said he just wanted to let loose – almost like not taking anything too seriously and to just move and vibe. So I was like, let’s go – literally. What made the video so amazing is of course it was beautifully shot, but it was that synergy once again. It was the visuals, it was X's understanding what it takes, it’s Drake that’s part of it. Let me tell you one thing, that man has his finger on the pulse of not what’s new or next, but 2 slots or 4 years ahead. He knew more than anybody, he knew that this was something. He is so smart and he said, let’s just vibe and we had fun. We freestyled and we literally just had fun on set joking around and it became what it became.

Who would have seen me coming up with dances that actually became a meme, people are doing it and it’s a signature Drake move! It was a blessing because I’m working with my friends and we’re honestly friends where we trust each other so much that there’s no micromanaging of anything. It’s like, I’m going to do this and this makes sense to this and it makes sense to that – so let’s do that. Then Drake is like let’s do this and we just made it happen. So trust and just going with your gut and not just doing things that you think is right or what someone else thinks is right.

AM: Well once again, it’s just beautiful and it will be 20 years from now where there will be those relevant elements that have a different vibe in respect to Gimmie the Light but it still has that warmth –

TS: That simplicity.

AM: It’s so simple and I do love an over the top production as well, but I also like when things are paired down and you can focus. No matter how many times you watch it, there’s something that pops up and it just figures that you were involved as well!

So it’s always fun to see your work as a dancer and a choreographer but it’s interesting to see you as both in the same project. Does it feel like a balanced moment when we get to see you as both the dancer as well as the choreographer?

TS: That to me – being a dancer during doing something that’s choreographed, unless I’m freestyling – doesn’t really feel good. But, if I’m on camera choreographing doing what I do, that feels balanced. But if I’m dancing, I can’t perform to my best when I know that I have choreographed for other people are around me and I’m looking for where they are in their space. I’m still thinking as a choreographer as well as what is my artist doing and I feel like I’m cheating – it doesn’t feel good. Because when I dance, I zone out and I let go to be free. In that moment, I’m not on guard. When I’m choreographing and I’m on camera doing choreography or creative, I feel like I’m at home. I’m able to not just express what it is that I do and get the job done, but I want other people to learn as well. There are other levels to creative direction and different aspects of it as well as even for the dancers. There are a lot of things that we can do because the longevity of a dancer is not that long so you have to think of other things to do that can still play into your love of dance – you don’t lose it, but you just evolve.

AM: You look at a person like Debbie Allen who she can still –

TS: I mean queen, queen, queen!

AM: You just look at her and even when you watch her in something that she isn’t dancing in like when she is in Grey’s Anatomy, she has a flow to her movement that when she crosses over to the other side of the room, you’re transfixed!

TS: Preach Kimmie!

AM: I love flow and it doesn’t just exist in dance, but when you see those who are dancers and they still have that style in other portions of their life, it’s beautiful to see! You can tell the flow and musicality that some people have even when there isn’t anything being played.

TS: She doesn’t know this and I never met her but she is such an inspiration.

AM: She’s amazing! She has that eye and you know she’s watching.

There are so many videos where your fingerprint has graced those productions and moments. How is that for you to do it from a video standpoint versus being on someone’s tour with Rihanna versus doing something for TV like the BET Awards? Do you have to think differently Awards? Do you have to think differently for space or just the mediums that are being used?

TS: I do and I’m glad that you asked that question. I think that that’s what keeps me excited because it’s not the same thing over and over again. It allows me to stay on my toes.

So when we breakdown for a music video, a music video has edits and the primary thing about a music video is centering around the artist. So if there is choreography involved, it’s for a specific section. I always have enough dialogue with the director understanding what the environment is – are we dancing in a box, dancing on platforms, dancing on a wet floor, what are the costumes, what is the vision and go from that. I choreograph in sections that I know will be used. If you were to choreograph the whole song, you already know half of that isn’t even going to be seen or used unless the artist is in it. But even so, there are different things that we have to see. That’s one way and how I deal with music videos.

When it comes to tours, I have to now consider not just what the director of the music video is shooting, the type of frame that it is – is it overhead, is it specifically for the camera. With a tour, I choreograph for the naked eye. The naked eye means the expansion of it – it’s entrances and exits because we see everything. You can’t control what one person is seeing when you have thousands of people watching. So it’s the beginning of the song, the ending of the song and how the next song comes in. So it’s the thread that I use and the bigger purpose and I also choreograph the movement for me which is never little. It’s always a lot bigger because I tend to choreograph for those in the nosebleeds that aren’t so close – they have to have some kind of entertainment so that they can see and feel it and you have a successful show.

For an awards show, it’s a hybrid of both. I actually prefer the awards shows because I get to hone in on the director portions that I went to school for about 6 months at the NY Film Academy to learn music video directing. Not so much to be a music video director, I wanted to know how to choreograph and to speak to actors, actresses and dancers and to know what different frames were so I could be better choreographer. So I get to hone in on that when I am creative directing and choreographing the awards shows, I’m able to set the tone – the feeling of this is The Wiz so it’ll be different colors here and there, we have a yellow brick road and we formulate that. Now, how do we put in the choreography into it – this person enters here, that person enters there. Ok great, now with the camera, what do I need to see first? I need a close up shot of the artists walking on the yellow brick road and now I add a steady cam with a 360 turn to a smaller lens where I see 1 person pop up and then the next. We then go to a jib for a wide so I get to utilize everything that I have learned to put together a piece which hopefully, my next dream or chapter, is to be able to do Broadway. That to me is everything from when I do these awards shows because I get to think outside of the box and actually create a real piece. I have my hands in all aspects from set design to lighting – it’s everything to tell what that story is for what I want in that moment.

AM: I really like getting that insight and I expected a lot of what was said, but I really liked hearing about the hybrid environment of an awards show that is a defined box but still a little more open versus other areas. To hear your process in how you work that makes me think of our photoshoots where we’re creating that set, bringing in the team, sketching out the moodboard, bringing in the styling etc to create this concept. So by the time I arrive to the actual set day, I have played so many things in my mind for those hours.

TS: Prep is no joke!

AM: For sure! At some points as you’re actually seeing it all together, you feel like it already happened because you were so immersed and bringing it life in every way.

TS: Oh my God I swear, I think we’re twins!

AM: When you’ve seen videos that you’ve done that have been given various awards, obviously a video is the culmination of what you’re doing, the talent, creative teams, director etc – with all those things coming together and showing everyone’s versatility and work – what does it mean to you to have that award given to a project you were involved in?

TS: I feel so accomplished, so much more than even if I were personally receiving it for myself. When people hire me, I sign a contract in the air – it’s not a real one but it’s where they trust me to deliver to the best. When they are awarded, the team is awarded and/or the video is awarded – I know that I have done my job and that I have gained the trust. I know that what I set out and put out to do happened. I’m definitely a woman of my word. If I say I’m going to show up, I show up. If I say I am going to make something happen, I’m going to make something happen. With these videos, it’s definitely a collaboration – you have a director at the helm, but nothing is independent from one another. The gaffers, the stylists, the stage PAs, like we’re working and a lot of times, you don't know these people and you have never worked with them before, so you have to get on board and have the same common goal. When that’s achieved and it’s achieved with an award at the highest point, I feel so much more pleased with the job because it’s good and then It’s onto the next! It’s all about hurry up and wait and then on to the next.

AM: So with everything that you have done from a video perspective, you’ve also done other things from campaigns to commercials to even working outside of the genre of Hip Hop. You’ve extended the multi-hyphenate nature of your work beyond creative director, dancer and choreographer, but also performance coach. What is a performance coach as you worked with Sarah Jessica Parker for her campaign with Intimissimi.

TS: Ok Kimmie, I like you, I swear you’re asking all the questions. Ok, so a performance coach is involved when there are no specific movements given. But it is having somebody portraying the emotion that they want them to portray through their body through movement. So it can be anything that you do, but it’s just narrowing it down to 10 beats. Now they have the freedom to choose which beat they want to use at this time. They may switch at another time. But it’s always showing you the vein or the box that you need to be within. Like, here are all the treats, you have 20 treats and this is the box. It allows them to be more individuals in that sense.

AM: That’s very interesting. I think it’s great to have those that are multi-hyphenates because they are able to pull from a range of skill sets and that it can be applied to a fuller spectrum so that you’re able to do more than one thing and you have longevity in other places too. The touchpoints that you have crossed by being able to take those skills and to work with George Clooney and large brands etc – it was interesting to see the research and how you have really optimized your talents and why it’s important for people to do more than just one thing.

You’ve been the creative director for Cardi B and H.E.R. which is amazing and what does that role involve for those that may not know what that means in this part of the industry?

TS: I work very closely with both of them and Lizzo is a new client of mine as well in this role. I basically sit with them and it starts off with a conversation about what it is and how they want their music and themselves to translate visuallly numbers that we wanted to add in. It was only supposed to be 1 episode and it ended up being more and it just happened that way.

AM: We saw her recent hosting and performances on SNL. Were you involved in that choreography?

TS: Yes!

AM: Loved it!

TS: It was cute right?

AM: I was watching it and was like, that’s her too.

TS: Yaaas! I did that and I did the creative for it. You know, it’s a new album, it’s going to be a dope album and really good. She is singing, the vibe is so fun – it’s funky. So we’re like, what do we do? SNL is one of the most iconic running shows in the world and I’m like we just need to have people hear and listen to the song. So instead of making a big dramatic set, let’s keep it simple, but golden and sparkly with lights. We just needed to give what the song gives. It was good and a good time and with her hosting too!

AM: Such a fan of her work but to have her hosting and performing on SNL while her series is streaming on Prime Video was amazing.

We’re living in a number of moments right now and in this body inclusivity time we’re in to give space to everyone that has an interest and the talent to do so, I think Lizzo’s show to have someone such as yourself who has worked with so many people to work with these women, really drives home the point that it’s not cool to identify those based on their race, gender, sexuality, body type etc and to dismiss them from opportunities where they can be present and own their gifts. This show is a great way to draw awareness to the opportunities that do exist for people.

TS: I love that! To me, what am I doing this job for – for what? When I think of what my legacy is, I just want everybody to have an opportunity and a moment to have what they want to have and then it’s up to them to continue with it. So give people the tools to be great to do what they want. It’s literally limitless. You’re right, it’s not cool to tell someone that they are not the right look for something. If you have the capability and the chops to do something – absolutely you should. Who is making the decision to defining what the perfect look is for something that is specific. You can have it in your box for what you do, but it should never be generalized.

With the girls, I said listen, we’re going to open up this door and you need to kick it down because I can only do so much for you. There is that aspect of being real and of course, it’s a sisterhood and we’re not here to put anybody down. We’re here to motivate and to uplift but at the same time, I’m very real and I know the kinds of circumstances that I have been through. I’ve been the dark-skinned girl where there was no makeup for you so before for those young kids that didn’t know, there was nothing. So I’d come in with my hat down low because X is calling me and Hype is calling me and telling me to get to set. I’m the first one in the makeup chair and the last one getting my makeup done. So, I’d put on a hat so that no one could see that I didn’t have makeup on. Or the fact that I’m chocolate, you can only have 1 of the 4 girls in the audition that will be chosen. Half the time that I’m auditioning, I’m like, "hey girl, hey girl” who is it going to be this time – well you got the last one so I’m going to be picked this time. You know what I’m saying? I’m not a Size 0 so having to get sample sizes was never the thing so my outfit was always the other outfit. My butt is big. Not being a trained dancer, I couldn’t do pirouettes, leaps and jumps. To this day, I still put myself in class learn and I am in beginners’ classes.

I’m not afraid to learn and that’s also what I tried to teach the girls. You control what happens to you in your life. Regardless of what people want to say and doors that have closed. We have all heard the stories about what happened to Tyra Banks and getting so many doors closed and then of course look at her now. We’ve all had that! But you have to keep pushing and once you push and that door opens, then you have to make sure that you stomp so hard that your foot is cemented into the ground and that they cannot deny you.

That’s what I got, I said don’t look at my face, I put my hat down, I didn’t need makeup, I’ll be there on time, I’ll wear my own outfit – I wasn’t doing choreography, so I was doing freestyle and every time out of those 100 music videos that I did, I freestyled that. I made sure that every single time I freestyled that I would get a standing ovation that would make them clap to make myself memorable. People would say, who was that girl that did this or who is that girl that did that and that’s how I made my mark. I think that that is the reason that I am where I am now because of all the no’s, I took them like a champ and I’m not saying that I never cried or wanted to give up, but I just kept going and every time there was an opportunity, I just said yes and let me figure it out when I get there.

AM: Tell me about the B Project campaign with Good American.

TS: Ok, yaaas! That was so fly to me Baroline Diaz is a VP of A&R at Interscope Records. We had never met before and she reached out to me and a few other women in her network that she didn’t know but admired and wanted all 12 of us to be part of her campaign. It was strictly for boss women that were self-made who didn’t have anything easy but are doing their damn thing. She just wanted to celebrate us and to be able to recognize others. Honestly before I even met her, I thought this sounds fire and when I met her, we had dinner and had some drinks and I’m like, “you are like everything that we need as a network for women that really do truly empower one another.” She doesn’t just say it, she lives it. We even have a chat that we still everyday talk with one another. Baroline is on it! She’s on our Instagram and our socials and she lets us know about so and so who does this and we say, “yes.” Or someone will say that they have something and will ask to get our addresses and they send it out. I’m going to help out someone else in the group with one of her artists. There are a couple of people in that group where we’re all super connected and we’re going to work with each other and help lift each other as well. There are just a lot of convos that go on in the group chat whether we’re helping one another out, sending scriptures or just getting projects going. It is such a great good sisterhood and it’s such a great campaign that I was able to be part of!

AM: It feels like you’re someone who is always flowing from one project to the next project or maybe it’s 80 projects that are all running at the same time! What do you have coming up that you are able to share that you’re excited about?

TS: I can share 2 things – 1 halfway. I am doing something with Disney and in NY so that should be cool! It’s kind of like wowzers and then another thing that is coming soon is that I’m working with Tom Holland and Sasha Lane on this Apple+ TV show, The Crowded Room. I can’t give anything away with this show, but I am so excited! I have the BET Awards coming up with Lizzo! H.E.R. right now is on tour opening up for Coldplay as well as her own tour. I did the creative direction for that. And working with Coldplay too!

AM: Saw that, I’m a huge Coldplay fan. I was like look at her rocking more spaces then just her spaces!

TS: RIGHT! And then Lizzo’s tour is coming and we’ll be announcing soon!

AM: In looking at other things that you have done, I know that at one time you were the choreographer for the Brooklyn Nets Kids dance team! How long were you with them and why did you want to do be involved in this?

TS: I started once Barclays opened up and the Brooklyn Nets became a thing. So I started working with the kids for about 5 years and then I passed it onto the assistant of mine at the time only because I started traveling for work and I couldn’t physically be there! I actually got the job through Jay-Z and my friend who is one of the directors for the female dancer’s entertainment group. For me, I chose to work with the kids because honestly for me, it’s not work for me when I work with children. Because they’re so fearless and they want to try everything, because they’re always so ready to go – I get a lot from them. I just feel really good being one of their first teachers to show them direction on how to learn, how to be, how to respect choreographers, how to walk in and just being part of their journey and helping to help them find who they are whether they want to do this or don’t want to do this as a career. Whether they want to continue or not, to me, that’s the world. I love working with kids.

AM: It’s so important to have a positive influence for dance. I remember growing up that I started in ballet and tap at a really young age. I liked ballet and I remember that the teacher told me that due to my body type there wasn’t a place for me in that arena and that there weren’t any Black ballerinas and that I shouldn’t do it. So, we’re talking the early 80s, I didn’t do it and I just did tap instead. The teacher, I thought at the time, was super nice and I believed what she said.

So to have a teacher that makes sure that you feel seen and allows you to go after something if that is your interest without putting barriers up, made me think that what you did for those kids was amazing.

Now do we know if I would have really done ballet – but I know you shouldn’t tell a 3 or 4 year old that they shouldn’t.

TS: No that’s absolutely right! That shouldn’t have happened. You said it perfectly, we need voices that allow people to be seen and to encourage them and to let them know you’re good enough. You should hone in on what you have and what you want. Golly, you need a second opinion sometimes.

AM: I know! But it was back then, so I didn’t know that there would be a Misty Copeland that would come along and at the time and where I grew up, there was no reference. But it did make me realize from then on that when I would go in whatever space, I fought for myself and place there and if it was something I wanted to do, I would make it happen regardless of what was said.

You also worked for a program with the Block Institute for Autism. Why did you want to be involved in this?

TS: Because I realized that there are things that are bigger than me and that there are things that are more rewarding than the biggest celebrity and the biggest brand. Does it even matter if you can’t enrich the lives of those that are not seen. People are important and if there is a need and especially with dance and what it has done for me and how it makes me feel, I want to be able to work with and teach and empower those that are in my reach. When I got the opportunity it was through a friend of mine that I talked with who worked with the Block Institute. I asked what they did and he explained that they provide extracurricular activities and I asked about dance. He explained that sometimes they would go in the gym and I let them know that I would come in and help and I did it for 3 years.

Life is short. God gave me a gift and it’s not for myself and it’s not for the riches or the popularity – it’s to enrich and to give hope, love and acceptance to others. I’m not keeping this to myself. I don’t like to dance alone! I want everybody to come and dance with me! It was pretty easy and a very quick yes from me. I actually miss doing it and I do want to start something up like that again. I really really do and I just have to make time for it. Thanks for reminding me about it! It’s important.

AM: I liked seeing that. We have been covering various autism stories from Autism Speaks Gala which included noted chefs and Andrew Zimmern was one of the hosts of the night, his son is autistic. It was a beautiful gala at Cipriani’s downtown and then Prime Video has a series streaming now, ‘As We See It’ which focuses on autistic adults and how they engage in the world and their relationship to one another, their families and they aid. It showed the depth of what it means to be autistic and how that can be from one person to the other as it’s not a monolithic experience. So to have someone such as yourself to give of your time in addition to everything you do, to infuse something you love to them is pretty awesome.

TS: Thank you. I really need to do more and it’s not enough.

AM: You do what you can in the hours of a day and I have taken 1 24 hour clock and made it 72 hours!

TS: Ha yes you’re right – let me stop!

AM: So when you’re not doing projects, how do you take time for yourself to have a reset? Because when you’re working with so many people and playing checkpoint, you’re doing 72 hours in a 24 hour cycle and you’re being 25 people!

TS: I’ve never heard it so eloquently stated like that! I literally when I have that time and I’m searching for it right now, I drop everything and go to Jamaica. I’m gone – the beach, the sand, the air – that’s what I need. If I can’t get away, then I’m in my bed watching any type of reality TV – like Love Island!

AM: Have you watched The Ultimatum yet?

TS: I just started! Because I just finished –

AM: Love is Blind!

TS: Yes, I’m still in the first episode, are you watching it?

AM: I already watched it. I am a queen binger because that is how I decompress! I love reality shows for a number of reasons – obviously it’s interesting to be able to see the people, you’re seeing designers coming through and there’s a lot of education that you can learn from the area that’s being covered, regional knowledge, restaurants etc and to know that that’s not you watching it all go down! Because I’m here for the drama as long as it’s not my own!

TS: Yes, same here!

AM: Who are 3 people that assisted you to be where you are today in your career?

TS: Director X, like I said, I’ve never met her before but Debbie Allen. She mentors me from afar there are things that she has done that are just so impressive. I’ll also say, my closest friends that are like my family and my brother and sister. They’re always like, how did you do this – this is great – keep going! Do t his and do that. They also ignite my fire. They give a lot of reassurance from them.

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PHOTO CREDIT | FRONT + BACK COVER, PG 18, 21, 26 Carey Bradshaw | PG 22, 25, 29, 30, 32 Courtesy Tanisha Scott | PG 35 + 36 Amazon/Watch Out For the Big Grrrls | PG 39 Ali Page Goldstein/HBO Max | PG 40 HBO MAX/Legendary | 9LIST STORI3S PG 180 Mohamed Sadek/GapFit |

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GAME IS MINE REMIX

This month, we have a mix for you to enjoy whether you're off to work, rocking it at the gym or wherever your tunes take you. Check out our latest mix on Soundcloud, The Game is Mine Mix.

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