A LEGACY MANIFESTED | ADAM BLACKSTONE

When we watch our favorite performances, there are so many people involved that make these shows come together. The Music Director has a birds eye view and is integral in making sure the components come together, keeping all the teams in lockstep with one another and being able to translate the artist's vision to what we see.

When you have a MD that is also musician and can play across genres, you really have someone that is multi-talented! We caught up with Adam Blackstone a bassist who has performed with Jay-Z, Dave Chapelle's Block Party, Justin Timberlake, Janet Jackson and so much more. He has also been the MD for a number of the entertainers above including Nicki Minaj and Rihanna - sometimes playing with these artists and more. In addition, this man has been the MD behind the historic Pepsi Super Bowl LVI Halftime Show featuring Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Kendrick Lamar, Mary J. Blige and Eminem and will be back again when for the Apple Music Super Bowl LVII Halftime Show with Rihanna hits the stage for this moment of sports meets music. In this position, he has helmed the OSCARS, NBA All Star Weekend, The Masked Singer and more.

In addiiton to being in the industry for decades with a coveted list of talent that he has worked with, he just released his debut album Legacy last fall and his single 'Round Midnight’ with Jazmin Sullivan has been nominated for a GRAMMY which takes place next month! To ensure that he can continue to grow his brand and fingerprint on the industry, he also talks about how he supplies an array of talent from musicians, engineers and background singers to our favorite artists through BASSic Black Entertainment.

With some busy days ahead, we wanted to find out about how he found his way into the music industry, his love for bass, being a musician as well as a MD and what he has coming up.

ATHLEISURE MAG: What was the moment when you fell in love with music?

ADAM BLACKSTONE: That’s a great question! I think from birth! With my family, I was always surrounded by music, my father is a musician. What we would call today, probably a wedding band singer, but he did weddings, bat mitzvahs, church services, banquets, and all of that. Then, growing up in Black church, my mom and my family was heavy into choir and music ministry. I think that early early African American church experience allowed me to see the power that the music played in the emotional and psyche of human beings in general. Fast forward to me going to high school and getting some jazz band awards and all of the accolades and the praise and being a little bit turned on by that as well. It made me want to excel and to show Black excellence. Of course, fast forward to really my first major major gig was Jay-Z on stage at Madison Square Garden. There was nothing like that feeling! So those 3 instances for me were very much spread out, but were very much so similar feelings you know?

AM: Yes. What drew you to wanting to play bass?

AB: Funny story, I started as a drummer. I think every little Black boy in church as a musician wants to play drums. When we moved to a suburb in town - Willingboro, NJ, again, the band teacher who was white, I’ll never forget when he said, “listen, I have 14 drummers. I heard about your family, I hear about your musical lineage that you have and our band is missing a bass player.” This was in 2nd grade and he said, “I would love if you would switch over.” I said, “hell naw, I’m not doing that bro!” This was back in the day when you had to walk to school and all of that and I wanted to walk with my drum sticks – I didn’t want to walk with a bass! He talked to my parents and we made the switch and honestly, it was one of the best decisions that I had ever made of course!

So that is what introduced me to bass and that instrument in general allows me to be the foundation and the root of all of the chords that are being played. I learned that a little later on. Drums is the rhythm, but bass is really the melody and it controls the chordal structure. Me being the future MD that I was, I think that I like a little bit of the control!

AM: I like how one decision really made all the difference!

You have worked with so many people from Rihanna, The Roots, Justin Timberlake, Maroon 5, Jay-Z and even across genres.

AB: Yes!

AM: How do you approach when you’re working on these projects as they all have different needs and different focuses in terms of when you’re coming in as the musician role.

AB: I think that the biggest thing is that they allow me to be able to be myself, to be creative, allow me to present them with ideas, but also knowing that I am protecting them. They know that I am taking their vision and just trying to enhance it a little bit. As musical director and crossing genres specifically, it’s not about my vision, it’s about the artists’ vision. We’re all a team. If they win, we win. If they’re hot on stage, if their tour is hot, it allows for more opportunities for me as well! So, I always pride myself on asking the artists what they need, what they want and how I can be a vessel to enhance that vision across genres, that respect is given and so they allow me to, you know, continue to be as successful as I am.

AM: Tell me about your debut album Legacy which came out last fall!

AB: Yessss Legacy, Legacy! It was a labor of love for sure! We all went through that pandemic, and you know, we lost some folks. I lost a couple of good friends of mine, I lost a cousin and going through to their services, I realized that I didn't want to leave this Earth with a laptop full of ideas – you know what I’m saying? I heard Jazzy Jeff say, “leave here empty.” So, I was really inspired by loss and I buckled down for about 40 - 45 days and returned to my roots and one of my first loves is jazz and really progressive jazz. I decided what songs I wanted to do and really saw which artists were being impacted by me for a long time and how they wanted to pay it back to me by hopping on my album. Everybody from Kirk Franklin to Mary Mary to Jazmine Sullivan to Jill Scott to Queen Latifah. The list goes on and on! I made that one phone call and they said, “absolutely, whatever you need,” because they know for the last 20 years, I have answered their phone calls and said the same thing. You know what I mean? It’s what I like to call, Relationship Equity! It’s been really cool. We went Billboard #1 on Legacy, the single got a GRAMMY nomination, we are Image Award nominee now for 2023 and going on tour opening for Jill Scott this spring. I’m very excited about that that Legacy continues to hopefully impact people and to become part of their legacy as well. I really did it to inspire.

AM: That is amazing and I really love when you are talking about Relationship Equity, as I have definitely dipped into that pool many times and let them know that for the times I reached back, I needed it for what I was working on.

AB: Even with that, to the right person, you don’t even have to say that because they know what you’ve done and the value that you have added to their legacy, you know what I’m saying? I’m very grateful for God giving me the foresight 20 years ago, didn’t know I would be here doing a record. I was nice to people, I was a good character person, I had integrity and so now when I make these calls, it’s been no issues. I’m super thankful for that!

AM: So are you thinking about your next album?

AB: Legacy 2, I’m definitely thinking about it for sure!

AM: In addition to being an artist and a musician, you’re a noted Music Director. Can you tell us what a Music Director does?

AB: No problem. As an MD, my job is to curate everything live music oriented from stage, to lighting, to choreography, to programming – basically build that live experience for the viewer. So it starts by me sitting with the artist and seeing what story that they want to tell through their set list. Sometimes we have 2 hours and then for things like the Super Bowl, we have 13 minutes, you know what I mean? From there, I do a lot of hiring of the band, backgrounds, engineers and then I rehearse the band and then it’s everything from me going to choreo rehearsal, lighting rehearsal to make sure that their cues line up with the music cues. So that gives that total overall experience and that’s essentially what a music director does from arranging, to scoring to creative on the stage.

AM: When you’re doing that, is it hard for you to wear two hats when you’re actually playing as well as being the Music Director?

AB: That’s a great question. I have to be honest and say, that it’s easier for me to be able to do the two hats because I speak through my instrument. That allows me to have a little bit more of a fluent language if we use that analogy, because I can get the ideas out while playing. Sometimes, if I’m just coming in to oversee and there is another band like Maroon 5 or something like that - when I do Tim McGraw, he has his own band, it’s like I have to adapt to their language. Either way it’s cool, but I have to say that the two hats actually because of my musicianship and I’m thankful for that, it lets the MD job be a little easier for me!

AM: It’s amazing to think about the fact that you were saying that whether someone is going on a tour, last year’s halftime show for the Super Bowl and you were also involved with The Masked Singer as well which is a TV show. That’s a lot of hats to juggle, so how do you say, ok if this is a tour – it’s this way and a TV show is another way and then when you’re doing the halftime show which was ridiculous –

AB: Thank you so much!

AM: We just watched the documentary, The Show: California Love, so being able to see the behind-the-scenes as someone who is a fashion stylist and the Co-Founder and Creative Director of Athleisure Mag, I have such an appreciation for how all of those things come together and it’s nice to see how that all took place.

AB: I think that the biggest difference is trusting myself and trusting the process. When it comes to the creative, I started as a touring guy so a lot of times, the touring aspect comes a little easier to me and I’m a fan of music. So I know what the viewer wants to see/hear. When it comes to the television show whether it’s The Masked Singer, The Four, BET Awards, The Voice – things like that, we’re making television so how do we want to sustain people’s interest by watching the show? How we do that is by making very impactful moments happen in a very short period of time. That’s different then the tour, because you want to elongate the moment so that you can stretch out people’s attention span – you get what I’m saying? It’s a different hat to wear, but at the end of the day, it’s about entertainment and I am happy to be a true entertainer in the sense of the musicianship of it.

AM: This year, you’re going to be back at it again with Rihanna’s halftime show for the Super Bowl. What can you tell us about this show and anything that you can share as we’re all so excited!

AB: No doubt, I’m excited to be a Co-Musical Director this year with my partner, Omar Edwards. He’s another Philly guy and we are going to set the world ablaze! Riri has had the superpower of all her career of being Anti, no pun intended! So, what that allows us to do is for us to think completely outside of the box. I can’t give you too many more details to be completely honest, but I will say that it’s going to be a whirlwind experience for that 13 mins for sure. I think that the people will love it for sure. I always like to call it the Super Bowl catalog of songs so I promise you that you will hear your favorites!

AM: Tell us about BASSic Black Entertainment and what it offers to those in the music industry.

AB: Absolutely, BBE we call it for short, BASSic Black Entertainment was founded by myself and my beautiful wife, Kaisha Blackstone. At a point in 2008/2009/2010, my stock as MD was rising and I was not able to be in multiple places at one time! So, the artists trusted me and said, “hey, even though you can’t be there. Can you set it up for me, hire the personnel?” I said of course and knowing that these people shared the same core values as me musically and personally, character and integrity as well – at one point, I had over 250 musicians, singers and engineers collectively out on the road with different tours. My wife said, “ok guy, hold on. Let’s figure this out.” How can we not just monetize because it wasn’t about that, it was about creating a structure for these people. I kind of was like calling them up, doing the music and then throwing them out with the wolves per se in my earlier career. But once we set up BASSic Black Entertainment, there is a structure, there are tour managers, there are rates in place and everything that allows people to be able to come to work and maximize their jobs for the potential to be a musician and to not have to worry that anybody will take advantage of them. They also know that the BBE brand is represented as well so it’s all with excellence.

Right now, we are a music staffing agency, we have now branched into the record label industry business as well with BBE Records and we will continue to not only put out music, and new artists, but also support tours. Right now, I have a BBE band out with Jeezy, a BBE band out with SZA, a BBE band out with Ari Lennox, we’re doing great! For myself, I’m opening this spring for Jill Scott, so that is going to be a great experience as well.

AM: I mean, you have so many plates that are spinning, all those projects, prepping for your spring tour, going to the GRAMMYs next month!

AB: Yesssss!

AM: Congratulations on that! You have the halftime show coming up – how do you take a moment for yourself in terms of self-care and making sure that you can kind of refill your cup or at least partially?

AB: I’m about to give you some exclusiveness! I like to just disappear from rehearsal for 3 days and to see my kids! Family first over everything to me! If I have their blessing to go out and be great, that allows me to remain creative and to operate in my most maximum genius. If the home structure is not cool, I’m coming home – you know what I’m saying? Even if home is cool and my stomach is not cool, or me missing my family and my wife is not cool, I’m coming home so that is how I replenish myself. I kiss my babies – I love on my family. I bring them out with me when I can. They support me in all I do, it’s been a sacrifice. It’s a sacrifice not only for me, but my wife as well. I’m just so thankful that I have a strong woman like that to hold the fort down, be at the crib – she knows that I’m out here building a legacy for our children. Hopefully, for her to be proud of as well. That’s how I replenish myself by filling myself up with love from my family.

AM: Once again, it was so much fun to research you for this piece as there were things that we already know, but it was a treasure trove of so many things like being the MD for All Star Basketball Weekend and the Oscars, you got an Emmy for last year’s halftime show for Oustanding Music Direction – you have done so much, you have worked with so many artists and now you have your own album, what do you want your legacy to be?

AB: My legacy should be that Adam Blackstone was a core value person, giving, selfless, loving and also did good music and made people laugh, made them dance through the melody. If that can be my legacy, that would be more then I could ever ask for. If my music is it then that is a plus, I promise you! I’ve been so thankful to see the impact that it has had through the accolades. The Emmy award was so so great, but I was hired to do a job, right. I was always going to do the best that I could do. I’m alsoways going to be the best me that I can be and an Emmy just validated that someone else thought that it was a good job as well. This GRAMMY nomination hit differently for me, because it’s an idea in my head – the music, it’s an idea in my gut, it’s an idea in my soul and it’s an idea in my heart. So, to see how that one idea can come to fruition and other people then latch on to that idea which was created by yourself, it just meant a whole different aspect for me with that. So the music thing has been such a great tool to show me the power of music, you know what I mean? I’m super excited for what’s to come and super thankful for that!

IG @adamblackstone

PHOTOGRAPHY COURTESY | Adam Blackstone

Read the JAN ISSUE #85 of Athleisure Mag and see A LEGACY MANIFESTED | Adam Blackstone in mag.

THE SCIENTIST OF MOVEMENT | TANISHA SCOTT

This month's cover is 3X MTV VMA nominated Creative Director, Choreographer, Performance Coach and dancer, Tanisha Scott. You've seen her iconic work as a choreographer with Sean Paul in Gimmie the Light and has continued to work with an array of artists from Beyoncé, Rihanna, Lil Nas X, Drake and more. She currently serves as Creative Director for Lizzo, Cardi B and H.E.R. A number of videos and performances that she created have become part of major cultural moments in Hip Hop and those movements have found their way into memes, Tik Tok videos and on an array of dance floors.

Her ability to bring her love of dancehall, freestyle and knowing what is natural to the body transcends her work for music videos across genres, touring and award show performances. We talk about her love for dance, getting into the industry, those she collaborates with, continuing to add to her skill sets and how she continues to leave her mark.

ATHLEISURE MAG: What was the moment that you realized that you fell in love with and wanted to dance?

TANISHA SCOTT: Honestly, dance has been part of my life and I can literally say this without it being cliché – for forever. My parents are Jamaican , my father loves music and he was actually a DJ on the side – not just house parties, but he would go out with his friends and spin. Before I was even born, music was all around within the family. I knew it was something that was super special to me not only because of my shadow – my brother, my sister and my dad playing, but I just knew how much it helped me feel good. It helped me to really open up. I’ll tell you this, when I was really, really young, I had an issue with stuttering and I found that through dance, I didn’t have to speak that much and I can speak through movement and I can express myself and people would smile and laugh and would want to dance too without me having to actually say something and feeling insecure about it. I knew I loved dance and that dance was actually a part of me and a very important part because of that journey. I didn’t realize that until I got older and saw that it actually made a difference for me in my life.

AM: That’s amazing. You were a background dancer for Mya when you first started. How did you transition from being a dancer to a choreographer and adding that to your body of work?

TS: Yeah, reluctantly, I can say that I didn’t want to call myself a choreographer for about a year after Gimmie the Light happened. Gimmie the Light happened because my dearest closest friend, Director X (DMX What’s My Name, Sean Paul Gimmie the Light, Drake Hotline Bling) is also from Toronto. He and Taj Critchlow who is his longtime manager have been so close to me! He didn’t ask me to choreograph the video, he told me I had to! I fell into it, I was scared out of my mind not knowing what to do because I felt that I was a freestyle dancer and that’s all I knew – how would I put moves together for other people? He just told me to figure it out. It wasn’t until I reached out to my mentor, Luther Brown (Janet Jackson Dammmn Baby, Lizzo Juice, Ozuna BAILA BAILA BAILA) who is the king of Hip Hop and stepping in Toronto and he mentored me and a bunch of other kids. It wasn’t until I reached out to him and let him know that I didn’t know how to choreograph and how would I do it? He broke it down to me and said what I would do especially is go to the mirror, figure out some moves, see what looked good on me, put it on some people and make sure that it looks good on them and there you go – from the basic aspect of it.

I choreographed the music video and I was like it’s not going to be much. Sean Paul was singing this song which was older at the time when it came out in North America. Being of Jamaican descent, you know that we’ve heard this song for forever. So it was like, I’m going to do this video for Sean Paul – yes. It wasn’t anything that I had to think of when it came to the movement because it’s what we did in the clubs, in the basement parties so I put all of our moves together and felt how it should flow – did the video and that’s it. Nobody knew that Gimmie the Light was going to blow up the way that it did in North America! No one had any clue of it. That’s how it happened and then before I knew it, people were like, you need to get this choreographer. I would say, the dancer, because I danced in that video but I didn’t feel like a choreographer – so reluctantly it happened – blame it on X!

AM: How does your love for dance, dancehall and being from Toronto inspire and infuse your work?

TS: Oh gosh, I think the reason why it inspires my work is that it’s the only thing that I know innately that I wasn’t taught to do. I was not taught in any kind of professional dance when I was younger, we just did dancehall because I come from a Jamaican lineage, music is all around and that’s what we’re going to do right? I just dance the way I knew to dance where it’s already in my blood. So that, no matter what project I do, you’ll always find a piece of it. I find that my choreography is organic and authentic. I don’t do traditional movement for anything that is cool or in, in style or whatever the trend is. I literally follow suit to what the music calls for. If it’s dancehall, then I’m going to give you dancehall, if it’s Hip Hop, I’m going to give you Hip Hop and if it’s something else, then I am going to give you that. I attribute that to the fact that I am a freestyler where I actually watch and I pickup visually a lot easier and do things that makes me feel good in my body as if I’m about to freestyle as opposed to putting together a segment of moves that are regimented in a specific style or technique of a dance. So I think that that’s how I get to flip flop. You’re always going to get a little piece of dancehall, but at the same time, I’m a battler at heart so if I see somebody do something, I’m going to do it and do it better and that’s the way that I choreograph.

AM: I like that and that’s why it’s authentic because you’re freely leaning into fluidity because that’s what you’re feeling.

As a choreographer, what are you looking for when you’re working with an artist or maybe someone who isn’t even a dancer – is it hard to work with someone like that who doesn’t dance, but they’re going to need to dance for that video? How do you go about that process of making that story and making them feel comfortable and let them dance?

TS: You know what? Would you believe me if I said that I actually prefer artists who don’t dance?

AM: I would actually understand why you would like that because you don’t have to breakdown or have someone unlearn what they do and you can just flow!

TS: Exactly! It’s for this one main reason, they end up becoming a little more fearless in what they do. Because I’m not a trained dancer, I understand the fear or being unsure of how to move, what to do and what looks good. Because of that, I find it very easy to look at someone and tell what their strengths and weaknesses are. I work with both to create something that is signature to them.

For instance, Kelis and Bossy – her whole walk thing, Rihanna obviously with her hips, anything that I do with any artist – Alicia Keys with her walk how she does it to the side and plays the piano with the side – using one hand on the piano but doing it while leaning – it’s so much more interesting to create something that is signature to that person.

Honestly, anybody can choreograph – literally. It’s just a series of movements together to express whatever you want to express. Some people just want to have trendy moves, some people want to tell a story, some people are just a little more intrinsic with their movements – there are an array of things. What gives me joy is working with artists and giving them their own signature imprint so that the choreography is not a Tanisha Scott choreography that so and so is doing. It’s what Tanisha Scott has created that is based off of this artist and that it is an imprint so the dancers look like them, they move in a certain way and that’s what I find more interesting is working with someone from the core and being able to build from the ground up – who are you, what is your persona, what is the zhuzh, what is the story that you want to tell. That is more intriguing and satisfying!

Now, artists that can dance, the palette is open – let’s try tap, let’s do jazz, silks – there is an array of things! What pulls at my heart strings where I just become the scientist of movement, is when I’m like, “ooo this will be amazing” and then you see them blossom, it means the absolute world to me. That is much more fulfilling.

AM: Love that! Going back to Gimmie the Light video, what do you think it is about this video that after all of these years, that reaction is still there? The feeling is still there. Since that video, we have seen tons of amazing things and technologically there are different things, but the song and visually there is that feeling that you still get when you see it. How does it have such staying power?

TS: I’ll tell you something, I feel that it’s because it is so organic and it’s so freeing like you can’t even explain or break it down to how everybody moves in that music video. It was just captured in the right way and it was just a vibe! Like, you can’t fuck up a vibe! Like you can’t not feel a feeling – you know what I’m saying? It wasn’t technical at all! It was just people moving and grooving in a way that was just something that felt good naturally in your body that connected to the music perfectly. Individuals captured it and it made it cool. It was swaggy, it was fun! You had PonyTailz doing the Spidermen, you had Dainty Crime which was a crew of guys in there jumping up and down, it was entertaining. It also didn’t feel like you couldn’t do the moves. Everybody at home wanted to try because it felt like, “oh I think I could do this.” That’s what makes it so good and continues to be so.

It’s like YMCA, everyone can do that and you want to jump in – that’s what I think it is.

AM: I think so too and conversely, we were on set shooting one of our covers and Hotline Bling came out. I hadn’t seen the video yet and we’re all prepping for the shoot and I was asked if I had seen the video. We’re watching this video and I knew it was Director X, but the vibe had elements of Gimmie the Light as well. Of course, I find out that you did that and I can see why I felt those homages to the other video. What was it like being on this project and obviously another Toronto connection – and it was fire!

TS: Yo, Hotline Bling, what made it so special from the beginning is because it was Director X, who had me involved and of course, it was Drake. I remember Drake saying, I need that Tanisha Scott/Gimmie the Light moment. So, I’m like, “let’s do it brother” and I had previously worked with him before. He said he just wanted to let loose – almost like not taking anything too seriously and to just move and vibe. So I was like, let’s go – literally. What made the video so amazing is of course it was beautifully shot, but it was that synergy once again. It was the visuals, it was X's understanding what it takes, it’s Drake that’s part of it. Let me tell you one thing, that man has his finger on the pulse of not what’s new or next, but 2 slots or 4 years ahead. He knew more than anybody, he knew that this was something. He is so smart and he said, let’s just vibe and we had fun. We freestyled and we literally just had fun on set joking around and it became what it became.

Who would have seen me coming up with dances that actually became a meme, people are doing it and it’s a signature Drake move! It was a blessing because I’m working with my friends and we’re honestly friends where we trust each other so much that there’s no micromanaging of anything. It’s like, I’m going to do this and this makes sense to this and it makes sense to that – so let’s do that. Then Drake is like let’s do this and we just made it happen. So trust and just going with your gut and not just doing things that you think is right or what someone else thinks is right.

AM: Well once again, it’s just beautiful and it will be 20 years from now where there will be those relevant elements that have a different vibe in respect to Gimmie the Light but it still has that warmth –

TS: That simplicity.

AM: It’s so simple and I do love an over the top production as well, but I also like when things are paired down and you can focus. No matter how many times you watch it, there’s something that pops up and it just figures that you were involved as well!

So it’s always fun to see your work as a dancer and a choreographer but it’s interesting to see you as both in the same project. Does it feel like a balanced moment when we get to see you as both the dancer as well as the choreographer?

TS: That to me – being a dancer during doing something that’s choreographed, unless I’m freestyling – doesn’t really feel good. But, if I’m on camera choreographing doing what I do, that feels balanced. But if I’m dancing, I can’t perform to my best when I know that I have choreographed for other people are around me and I’m looking for where they are in their space. I’m still thinking as a choreographer as well as what is my artist doing and I feel like I’m cheating – it doesn’t feel good. Because when I dance, I zone out and I let go to be free. In that moment, I’m not on guard. When I’m choreographing and I’m on camera doing choreography or creative, I feel like I’m at home. I’m able to not just express what it is that I do and get the job done, but I want other people to learn as well. There are other levels to creative direction and different aspects of it as well as even for the dancers. There are a lot of things that we can do because the longevity of a dancer is not that long so you have to think of other things to do that can still play into your love of dance – you don’t lose it, but you just evolve.

AM: You look at a person like Debbie Allen who she can still –

TS: I mean queen, queen, queen!

AM: You just look at her and even when you watch her in something that she isn’t dancing in like when she is in Grey’s Anatomy, she has a flow to her movement that when she crosses over to the other side of the room, you’re transfixed!

TS: Preach Kimmie!

AM: I love flow and it doesn’t just exist in dance, but when you see those who are dancers and they still have that style in other portions of their life, it’s beautiful to see! You can tell the flow and musicality that some people have even when there isn’t anything being played.

TS: She doesn’t know this and I never met her but she is such an inspiration.

AM: She’s amazing! She has that eye and you know she’s watching.

There are so many videos where your fingerprint has graced those productions and moments. How is that for you to do it from a video standpoint versus being on someone’s tour with Rihanna versus doing something for TV like the BET Awards? Do you have to think differently Awards? Do you have to think differently for space or just the mediums that are being used?

TS: I do and I’m glad that you asked that question. I think that that’s what keeps me excited because it’s not the same thing over and over again. It allows me to stay on my toes.

So when we breakdown for a music video, a music video has edits and the primary thing about a music video is centering around the artist. So if there is choreography involved, it’s for a specific section. I always have enough dialogue with the director understanding what the environment is – are we dancing in a box, dancing on platforms, dancing on a wet floor, what are the costumes, what is the vision and go from that. I choreograph in sections that I know will be used. If you were to choreograph the whole song, you already know half of that isn’t even going to be seen or used unless the artist is in it. But even so, there are different things that we have to see. That’s one way and how I deal with music videos.

When it comes to tours, I have to now consider not just what the director of the music video is shooting, the type of frame that it is – is it overhead, is it specifically for the camera. With a tour, I choreograph for the naked eye. The naked eye means the expansion of it – it’s entrances and exits because we see everything. You can’t control what one person is seeing when you have thousands of people watching. So it’s the beginning of the song, the ending of the song and how the next song comes in. So it’s the thread that I use and the bigger purpose and I also choreograph the movement for me which is never little. It’s always a lot bigger because I tend to choreograph for those in the nosebleeds that aren’t so close – they have to have some kind of entertainment so that they can see and feel it and you have a successful show.

For an awards show, it’s a hybrid of both. I actually prefer the awards shows because I get to hone in on the director portions that I went to school for about 6 months at the NY Film Academy to learn music video directing. Not so much to be a music video director, I wanted to know how to choreograph and to speak to actors, actresses and dancers and to know what different frames were so I could be better choreographer. So I get to hone in on that when I am creative directing and choreographing the awards shows, I’m able to set the tone – the feeling of this is The Wiz so it’ll be different colors here and there, we have a yellow brick road and we formulate that. Now, how do we put in the choreography into it – this person enters here, that person enters there. Ok great, now with the camera, what do I need to see first? I need a close up shot of the artists walking on the yellow brick road and now I add a steady cam with a 360 turn to a smaller lens where I see 1 person pop up and then the next. We then go to a jib for a wide so I get to utilize everything that I have learned to put together a piece which hopefully, my next dream or chapter, is to be able to do Broadway. That to me is everything from when I do these awards shows because I get to think outside of the box and actually create a real piece. I have my hands in all aspects from set design to lighting – it’s everything to tell what that story is for what I want in that moment.

AM: I really like getting that insight and I expected a lot of what was said, but I really liked hearing about the hybrid environment of an awards show that is a defined box but still a little more open versus other areas. To hear your process in how you work that makes me think of our photoshoots where we’re creating that set, bringing in the team, sketching out the moodboard, bringing in the styling etc to create this concept. So by the time I arrive to the actual set day, I have played so many things in my mind for those hours.

TS: Prep is no joke!

AM: For sure! At some points as you’re actually seeing it all together, you feel like it already happened because you were so immersed and bringing it life in every way.

TS: Oh my God I swear, I think we’re twins!

AM: When you’ve seen videos that you’ve done that have been given various awards, obviously a video is the culmination of what you’re doing, the talent, creative teams, director etc – with all those things coming together and showing everyone’s versatility and work – what does it mean to you to have that award given to a project you were involved in?

TS: I feel so accomplished, so much more than even if I were personally receiving it for myself. When people hire me, I sign a contract in the air – it’s not a real one but it’s where they trust me to deliver to the best. When they are awarded, the team is awarded and/or the video is awarded – I know that I have done my job and that I have gained the trust. I know that what I set out and put out to do happened. I’m definitely a woman of my word. If I say I’m going to show up, I show up. If I say I am going to make something happen, I’m going to make something happen. With these videos, it’s definitely a collaboration – you have a director at the helm, but nothing is independent from one another. The gaffers, the stylists, the stage PAs, like we’re working and a lot of times, you don't know these people and you have never worked with them before, so you have to get on board and have the same common goal. When that’s achieved and it’s achieved with an award at the highest point, I feel so much more pleased with the job because it’s good and then It’s onto the next! It’s all about hurry up and wait and then on to the next.

AM: So with everything that you have done from a video perspective, you’ve also done other things from campaigns to commercials to even working outside of the genre of Hip Hop. You’ve extended the multi-hyphenate nature of your work beyond creative director, dancer and choreographer, but also performance coach. What is a performance coach as you worked with Sarah Jessica Parker for her campaign with Intimissimi.

TS: Ok Kimmie, I like you, I swear you’re asking all the questions. Ok, so a performance coach is involved when there are no specific movements given. But it is having somebody portraying the emotion that they want them to portray through their body through movement. So it can be anything that you do, but it’s just narrowing it down to 10 beats. Now they have the freedom to choose which beat they want to use at this time. They may switch at another time. But it’s always showing you the vein or the box that you need to be within. Like, here are all the treats, you have 20 treats and this is the box. It allows them to be more individuals in that sense.

AM: That’s very interesting. I think it’s great to have those that are multi-hyphenates because they are able to pull from a range of skill sets and that it can be applied to a fuller spectrum so that you’re able to do more than one thing and you have longevity in other places too. The touchpoints that you have crossed by being able to take those skills and to work with George Clooney and large brands etc – it was interesting to see the research and how you have really optimized your talents and why it’s important for people to do more than just one thing.

You’ve been the creative director for Cardi B and H.E.R. which is amazing and what does that role involve for those that may not know what that means in this part of the industry?

TS: I work very closely with both of them and Lizzo is a new client of mine as well in this role. I basically sit with them and it starts off with a conversation about what it is and how they want their music and themselves to translate visuallly numbers that we wanted to add in. It was only supposed to be 1 episode and it ended up being more and it just happened that way.

AM: We saw her recent hosting and performances on SNL. Were you involved in that choreography?

TS: Yes!

AM: Loved it!

TS: It was cute right?

AM: I was watching it and was like, that’s her too.

TS: Yaaas! I did that and I did the creative for it. You know, it’s a new album, it’s going to be a dope album and really good. She is singing, the vibe is so fun – it’s funky. So we’re like, what do we do? SNL is one of the most iconic running shows in the world and I’m like we just need to have people hear and listen to the song. So instead of making a big dramatic set, let’s keep it simple, but golden and sparkly with lights. We just needed to give what the song gives. It was good and a good time and with her hosting too!

AM: Such a fan of her work but to have her hosting and performing on SNL while her series is streaming on Prime Video was amazing.

We’re living in a number of moments right now and in this body inclusivity time we’re in to give space to everyone that has an interest and the talent to do so, I think Lizzo’s show to have someone such as yourself who has worked with so many people to work with these women, really drives home the point that it’s not cool to identify those based on their race, gender, sexuality, body type etc and to dismiss them from opportunities where they can be present and own their gifts. This show is a great way to draw awareness to the opportunities that do exist for people.

TS: I love that! To me, what am I doing this job for – for what? When I think of what my legacy is, I just want everybody to have an opportunity and a moment to have what they want to have and then it’s up to them to continue with it. So give people the tools to be great to do what they want. It’s literally limitless. You’re right, it’s not cool to tell someone that they are not the right look for something. If you have the capability and the chops to do something – absolutely you should. Who is making the decision to defining what the perfect look is for something that is specific. You can have it in your box for what you do, but it should never be generalized.

With the girls, I said listen, we’re going to open up this door and you need to kick it down because I can only do so much for you. There is that aspect of being real and of course, it’s a sisterhood and we’re not here to put anybody down. We’re here to motivate and to uplift but at the same time, I’m very real and I know the kinds of circumstances that I have been through. I’ve been the dark-skinned girl where there was no makeup for you so before for those young kids that didn’t know, there was nothing. So I’d come in with my hat down low because X is calling me and Hype is calling me and telling me to get to set. I’m the first one in the makeup chair and the last one getting my makeup done. So, I’d put on a hat so that no one could see that I didn’t have makeup on. Or the fact that I’m chocolate, you can only have 1 of the 4 girls in the audition that will be chosen. Half the time that I’m auditioning, I’m like, "hey girl, hey girl” who is it going to be this time – well you got the last one so I’m going to be picked this time. You know what I’m saying? I’m not a Size 0 so having to get sample sizes was never the thing so my outfit was always the other outfit. My butt is big. Not being a trained dancer, I couldn’t do pirouettes, leaps and jumps. To this day, I still put myself in class learn and I am in beginners’ classes.

I’m not afraid to learn and that’s also what I tried to teach the girls. You control what happens to you in your life. Regardless of what people want to say and doors that have closed. We have all heard the stories about what happened to Tyra Banks and getting so many doors closed and then of course look at her now. We’ve all had that! But you have to keep pushing and once you push and that door opens, then you have to make sure that you stomp so hard that your foot is cemented into the ground and that they cannot deny you.

That’s what I got, I said don’t look at my face, I put my hat down, I didn’t need makeup, I’ll be there on time, I’ll wear my own outfit – I wasn’t doing choreography, so I was doing freestyle and every time out of those 100 music videos that I did, I freestyled that. I made sure that every single time I freestyled that I would get a standing ovation that would make them clap to make myself memorable. People would say, who was that girl that did this or who is that girl that did that and that’s how I made my mark. I think that that is the reason that I am where I am now because of all the no’s, I took them like a champ and I’m not saying that I never cried or wanted to give up, but I just kept going and every time there was an opportunity, I just said yes and let me figure it out when I get there.

AM: Tell me about the B Project campaign with Good American.

TS: Ok, yaaas! That was so fly to me Baroline Diaz is a VP of A&R at Interscope Records. We had never met before and she reached out to me and a few other women in her network that she didn’t know but admired and wanted all 12 of us to be part of her campaign. It was strictly for boss women that were self-made who didn’t have anything easy but are doing their damn thing. She just wanted to celebrate us and to be able to recognize others. Honestly before I even met her, I thought this sounds fire and when I met her, we had dinner and had some drinks and I’m like, “you are like everything that we need as a network for women that really do truly empower one another.” She doesn’t just say it, she lives it. We even have a chat that we still everyday talk with one another. Baroline is on it! She’s on our Instagram and our socials and she lets us know about so and so who does this and we say, “yes.” Or someone will say that they have something and will ask to get our addresses and they send it out. I’m going to help out someone else in the group with one of her artists. There are a couple of people in that group where we’re all super connected and we’re going to work with each other and help lift each other as well. There are just a lot of convos that go on in the group chat whether we’re helping one another out, sending scriptures or just getting projects going. It is such a great good sisterhood and it’s such a great campaign that I was able to be part of!

AM: It feels like you’re someone who is always flowing from one project to the next project or maybe it’s 80 projects that are all running at the same time! What do you have coming up that you are able to share that you’re excited about?

TS: I can share 2 things – 1 halfway. I am doing something with Disney and in NY so that should be cool! It’s kind of like wowzers and then another thing that is coming soon is that I’m working with Tom Holland and Sasha Lane on this Apple+ TV show, The Crowded Room. I can’t give anything away with this show, but I am so excited! I have the BET Awards coming up with Lizzo! H.E.R. right now is on tour opening up for Coldplay as well as her own tour. I did the creative direction for that. And working with Coldplay too!

AM: Saw that, I’m a huge Coldplay fan. I was like look at her rocking more spaces then just her spaces!

TS: RIGHT! And then Lizzo’s tour is coming and we’ll be announcing soon!

AM: In looking at other things that you have done, I know that at one time you were the choreographer for the Brooklyn Nets Kids dance team! How long were you with them and why did you want to do be involved in this?

TS: I started once Barclays opened up and the Brooklyn Nets became a thing. So I started working with the kids for about 5 years and then I passed it onto the assistant of mine at the time only because I started traveling for work and I couldn’t physically be there! I actually got the job through Jay-Z and my friend who is one of the directors for the female dancer’s entertainment group. For me, I chose to work with the kids because honestly for me, it’s not work for me when I work with children. Because they’re so fearless and they want to try everything, because they’re always so ready to go – I get a lot from them. I just feel really good being one of their first teachers to show them direction on how to learn, how to be, how to respect choreographers, how to walk in and just being part of their journey and helping to help them find who they are whether they want to do this or don’t want to do this as a career. Whether they want to continue or not, to me, that’s the world. I love working with kids.

AM: It’s so important to have a positive influence for dance. I remember growing up that I started in ballet and tap at a really young age. I liked ballet and I remember that the teacher told me that due to my body type there wasn’t a place for me in that arena and that there weren’t any Black ballerinas and that I shouldn’t do it. So, we’re talking the early 80s, I didn’t do it and I just did tap instead. The teacher, I thought at the time, was super nice and I believed what she said.

So to have a teacher that makes sure that you feel seen and allows you to go after something if that is your interest without putting barriers up, made me think that what you did for those kids was amazing.

Now do we know if I would have really done ballet – but I know you shouldn’t tell a 3 or 4 year old that they shouldn’t.

TS: No that’s absolutely right! That shouldn’t have happened. You said it perfectly, we need voices that allow people to be seen and to encourage them and to let them know you’re good enough. You should hone in on what you have and what you want. Golly, you need a second opinion sometimes.

AM: I know! But it was back then, so I didn’t know that there would be a Misty Copeland that would come along and at the time and where I grew up, there was no reference. But it did make me realize from then on that when I would go in whatever space, I fought for myself and place there and if it was something I wanted to do, I would make it happen regardless of what was said.

You also worked for a program with the Block Institute for Autism. Why did you want to be involved in this?

TS: Because I realized that there are things that are bigger than me and that there are things that are more rewarding than the biggest celebrity and the biggest brand. Does it even matter if you can’t enrich the lives of those that are not seen. People are important and if there is a need and especially with dance and what it has done for me and how it makes me feel, I want to be able to work with and teach and empower those that are in my reach. When I got the opportunity it was through a friend of mine that I talked with who worked with the Block Institute. I asked what they did and he explained that they provide extracurricular activities and I asked about dance. He explained that sometimes they would go in the gym and I let them know that I would come in and help and I did it for 3 years.

Life is short. God gave me a gift and it’s not for myself and it’s not for the riches or the popularity – it’s to enrich and to give hope, love and acceptance to others. I’m not keeping this to myself. I don’t like to dance alone! I want everybody to come and dance with me! It was pretty easy and a very quick yes from me. I actually miss doing it and I do want to start something up like that again. I really really do and I just have to make time for it. Thanks for reminding me about it! It’s important.

AM: I liked seeing that. We have been covering various autism stories from Autism Speaks Gala which included noted chefs and Andrew Zimmern was one of the hosts of the night, his son is autistic. It was a beautiful gala at Cipriani’s downtown and then Prime Video has a series streaming now, ‘As We See It’ which focuses on autistic adults and how they engage in the world and their relationship to one another, their families and they aid. It showed the depth of what it means to be autistic and how that can be from one person to the other as it’s not a monolithic experience. So to have someone such as yourself to give of your time in addition to everything you do, to infuse something you love to them is pretty awesome.

TS: Thank you. I really need to do more and it’s not enough.

AM: You do what you can in the hours of a day and I have taken 1 24 hour clock and made it 72 hours!

TS: Ha yes you’re right – let me stop!

AM: So when you’re not doing projects, how do you take time for yourself to have a reset? Because when you’re working with so many people and playing checkpoint, you’re doing 72 hours in a 24 hour cycle and you’re being 25 people!

TS: I’ve never heard it so eloquently stated like that! I literally when I have that time and I’m searching for it right now, I drop everything and go to Jamaica. I’m gone – the beach, the sand, the air – that’s what I need. If I can’t get away, then I’m in my bed watching any type of reality TV – like Love Island!

AM: Have you watched The Ultimatum yet?

TS: I just started! Because I just finished –

AM: Love is Blind!

TS: Yes, I’m still in the first episode, are you watching it?

AM: I already watched it. I am a queen binger because that is how I decompress! I love reality shows for a number of reasons – obviously it’s interesting to be able to see the people, you’re seeing designers coming through and there’s a lot of education that you can learn from the area that’s being covered, regional knowledge, restaurants etc and to know that that’s not you watching it all go down! Because I’m here for the drama as long as it’s not my own!

TS: Yes, same here!

AM: Who are 3 people that assisted you to be where you are today in your career?

TS: Director X, like I said, I’ve never met her before but Debbie Allen. She mentors me from afar there are things that she has done that are just so impressive. I’ll also say, my closest friends that are like my family and my brother and sister. They’re always like, how did you do this – this is great – keep going! Do t his and do that. They also ignite my fire. They give a lot of reassurance from them.

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PHOTO CREDIT | FRONT + BACK COVER, PG 18, 21, 26 Carey Bradshaw | PG 22, 25, 29, 30, 32 Courtesy Tanisha Scott | PG 35 + 36 Amazon/Watch Out For the Big Grrrls | PG 39 Ali Page Goldstein/HBO Max | PG 40 HBO MAX/Legendary | 9LIST STORI3S PG 180 Mohamed Sadek/GapFit |

Read the APR ISSUE #77 of Athleisure Mag and see THE SCIENTIST OF MOVEMENT | Tanisha Scott in mag.

IT'S ALL JUST STORY | RODNEY BARNES

This year when the NBA unveiled their 75th Anniversary Team of retired and active players, it included 17 members who played for the Lakers which includes the Showtime era of the 70/80s with players Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson. To understand the importance of this era and what it did to how we enjoy the game, and how it moved the game forward in terms of commerce and making players brand, Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty illustrates the dynamics at play.

We talked with Rodney Barnes, who has written for STARZ Heels, STARZ American Gods, Everybody Hates Chris and more. He shares how he got into the industry, the positions he has held, his approach to his work, being the Executive Producer and writer for Winning Time, Zombie Love Studios and his passion for comic books and graphic novels.

ATHLEISURE MAG: You’ve worked in various positions in the entertainment industry as a Production Assistant, showrunner, Executive Producer and an award-winning screenwriter. With all of these roles, what was the moment that you realized that you wanted to work in this industry?

RODNEY BARNES: I was going to Howard University and I was in the School of C (Howard University Cathy Hughs School of Communication) and I was working at Georgetown Law Center as a campus cop at night and I found out that the movie The Pelican Brief was coming to my job to film some scenes. So I was really excited because it’s one thing to go to school for this and it’s another thing to actually be able to see it up close. So I signed up for all of the overtime details and I got them all. I started watching the movie being put together and it was so exciting! So I met a guy and he was the PA, he was a Key Set PA. So I asked him how I could get a job doing what he did. He said that that weekend, they had some big scenes that were taking place at the Washington Monument and that if I wanted to come and do it for a day, they'd be happy to have me.

So I did it and it was the most exciting, fun and best $100 that I ever made in my entire life! It was something about it that felt right. I felt more purpose in doing that and being close to this thing that I wanted to be close to then I did doing anything else that paid a lot better. I quit my job at Georgetown and started working as a PA full time.

AM: What a story, we always tell people that we embrace the multi-hyphenate. As someone who has worked in a number of roles and continues to do so from writing and producing, when did you know that you wanted to take on these areas and what the specific area was that you wanted to start in first? Or was there just a confluence that took place to make all of this come together?

RB: I knew I wanted to be a writer, but I knew what I didn’t know. I knew that I didn’t understand how any of this worked and I had a very fundamental understanding of what writing was and telling stories. Quite frankly, emotionally and psychologically, I wasn’t mature enough or evolved enough to be able to take on the big job. So, working as a PA, I look at it as being an apprentice. I had an opportunity to meet people, to sort of find my tribe, to figure out the psychology of how it would work and to just get my legs under me which was a bit like bootcamp. It was always writing, but I had to build up to the idea of being able to take my shot at it because it just felt too big.

AM: What do you think was the biggest thing that you learned from being a PA that has helped you with your career or was it just being able to see all the parts that were moving and to be able to understand how they connect?

RB: There was that. I think that the thing for me was that I always had this idea that everybody in Hollywood must be a genius and I haven’t met a genius yet. But, what I have met are some folks that have worked really really hard at their craft. It sort of demystified the entire process for me in being able to see it up close and to be able to observe. I wouldn’t say that I was a vital part although I know that some people would disagree. It was sort of the type of thing where getting to know people as friends and mentors even though that’s a problematic word as no one put their arm around me and said, “son this is what you do.” But they allowed me to be in their circle and to be able to see how the sausage is made. I got an opportunity to be able to just see things up close and to decide whether or not I could do it, if I wanted to do it and the closer I got to the thing that I wanted, the better that things got for me, but I wouldn’t have been able to do any of it if I hadn’t been a PA.

AM: From a screenwriting aspect, you have written a number of things. I loved your work in American Gods which I loved that show and obviously Winning Time and then you look at shows like Everybody Hates Chris. How do you get inspiration to write and then where do you start from when you’re trying to put words to paper to create these worlds for us?

RB: I never looked at it from a place of inspiration because if I need the emotional investment to do it, then I’m not going to be inspired some of those days and I’m still going to have to do it. For me, the difference was, approaching every day like I’m at work which was no different then when I was at Walmart or Target or any of those places that I worked at along the way. I had to get up, I had to work, I didn’t feel like it and then somewhere midday or so, it got a little bit better and then a little bit better. I sort of approach writing in the same way. I have a lot of resistance on the days that I don’t feel like doing it, but it needs to be done because I have a deadline. 78% of the time, I’m able to be disciplined and I’m able to get it done and the other times, I might go to the movies, sit and watch a game or do something else when I’m supposed to be writing. But I think it’s more of a discipline of doing the thing than an emotional component to it. There are days where I feel it and if I'm writing something like a horror driven thing like in my graphic novels, I'm enjoying it a great deal so it’s easier to do, but whether I feel it or I don’t feel it or am some place in between, I still do it.

AM: Just to circle back to American Gods, one of my minors in college was Classical Civilization so it covered mythologies of the world in addition to Greece and Rome and included African and Asian nations. So when I watched it, I loved seeing all of these stories that came to life. What was it like writing for that?

RB: It was great! The best thing that came out of it was my relationship with Orlando Jones (Sleepy Hollow, American Gods, The Good Lord Bird) who played Anansi/Mr. Nancy on our show. I had a similar thing as you, I didn’t do it in college but I studied a lot of different types of mythology and some of these characters like Anansi and Bilquis and others, you don’t really get to hear a lot about them. Because of comic books, you get Thor and Zeus, Odin and Hercules and those guys but oftentimes, Gods of color don’t get a lot of love. Even when they do, it’s in secondary roles. Working for American Gods and I’m a huge Neil Gaiman fan. So to be able to play in that sort of world and get some genre credits under my name was great as I have a comic book company and I also tell a lot of genre driven stories so being able to legitimize that beyond wanting to do it was always something that I wanted to do.

AM: It was such a phenomenal series. I remember seeing the episodes and being able to see some of these characters that I had read about being brought to life so fully, it kept me glued and it was truly incredible.

So as a screenwriter, what is that process like in terms of getting attached to a project and how does one pitch themselves to get into this work?

RB: Well my agents do a lot of my pitching. They typically open doors, but I’d say that about 75% of the work that I get, outside of the things that I create, really comes from via word of mouth. Right now it’s a good time because of Winning Time and people seemingly are enjoying it and you get a lot of offers to do things because they like it which I am grateful for and it is a blessing. More often than not, it’s about putting yourself in the right position you know? People know that I write graphic books and comic books so whenever a project like that comes around and it seems like they can use a writer like me, oftentimes, they’ll call or not so much now because I have been doing it for awhile but maybe 7 or 8 years ago, if it was something that I had heard about that was coming down the pike, I would tell my agents to keep an eye out on it and then see if maybe they could get me up there to be considered.

AM: Is it a different flow for you when you’re writing for the BET Awards or the Oscars – is there a different approach because it’s a live audience or a different format then just a show or even the comic books?

RB: Not really, I look at all of it like it’s story whether it’s writing a joke, Chris Rock or one of his specials or whoever I’m working for for the Oscars or an awards show. Even a joke is a story. It has a beginning, a middle and an end. Whether I’m telling a funny story or a horrifying story or a dramatic story, at the end of the day, it’s all a story. So, I approach it all the same way. The biggest thing for me is really understanding who’s going to be interpreting the words. Like, I work a lot with Chris Rock, and I know him really, really well so if I’m going to pitch something to him, I incorporate that knowledge into the pitch. Like, I can sort of filter myself and know that he wouldn’t like this or he would really like that part. In writing the shows, I have built a great relationship with a lot of our cast and so, I try to write to their strengths as well as to the story that I am trying to tell. When I am saying that I’m writing to their strengths, I'm talking dialogue. There is a cadence to how people talk and if you can make it easier for them to interpret the words, I think that they become more comfortable with it so it's really more so about having familiarity with it for the task at hand.

AM: Also in your body of work, you have been a co-producer and a producer in shows like Heels, Winning Time and Wu-Tang: An American Saga. We’ve had a number of WWE wrestlers as our cover and shared their stories so seeing Heels was another show that we enjoyed. When did you realize that you wanted to add these roles into your body of work and how does that change your perspective especially when you're also writing the show as well?

RB: Well it’s funny, those titles of producing can mean a lot of different things. Earlier in my career, say on My Wife and Kids, when I was a producer, it wasn’t really a lot more to do than sitting in a room and writing. It’s sort of like the government, government jobs they have G-1, G-2 as you work up and it’s sort of like that in television in writing as well. If you do it long enough, you start out as a staff writer and then you move up to a story editor and then an executive story editor and then you go up through the WGA (Writers Guild of America) classifications that go with moving up. But then, in certain gigs like in Everybody Hates Chris, I was in the writer’s room and wrote a number of episodes, but I also produced the voiceover that you would hear in every show. So I would write the lines and go with Chris Rock and go record the lines together and then I would place them in the show in editing. So, to me that was actually the beginning of actually producing and so on different shows, that idea of what a producer means is something different.

On Winning Time, I actually work with the actors whether it’s working on set with their lines, working with the director to see whether or not a shot is sort of lining up with how we saw it when we were writing the show – it can mean a lot of different things. There are some shows where I have been an EP and it didn't mean anything more than just writing a show and putting it together or on some shows I'm actually tangibly doing something different. On American Gods, I wrote and also worked on the set with the actors and the director as well and putting it all together. On Heels, not so much. Marvel's Runaways – not so much. But it’s different with each one, so it’s a classification that comes with being a TV writer and as the responsibilities go, it has more to do with what that show requires.

AM: When I first heard about Winning Time last fall, I knew I was going to love it, I remember as a kid in 1986 loving this team even though I grew up in Indiana and it continues even though I live in NY now. So seeing this story, hearing about this story and getting this inside scoop of what was going on has made it really enjoyable to watch. How did you get attached to this project and what made you want to be involved?

RB: Max Borenstein (Kong: Skull Island, Worth, Godzilla vs Kong) who is our showrunner and the other Executive Producer as well, he and I have been writing together for about 10 years and when Jim Hecht (Fairly OddParents, Ice Age 2: The Meltdown, The Ice Age Adventures of Buck Wild) first optioned the book, he got the book to Adam McKay (Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby, Vice, Don’t Look Up), and he got it to HBO and they said they would do a pilot I believe, I don’t know if the project was picked up then. They hired Max, Max called me and I said yes that I would want to be a part of it. That’s how it started.

AM: It’s an incredible cast and I love McKay films and the people that are in it. In terms of writing this where you had Jeff Pearlman’s book Showtime: Magic, Kareem, Riley and the Los Angeles Lakers Dynasty of the 1980s, how much source material did you have as I know players of that time as well as the franchise didn’t reach out to you on this. How did you coalesce these things all together to create this story and to provide that insider feel?

RB: Well we were really fortunate that book. So we studied a lot of books and Rick Fox, former Laker was our technical advisor, we talked to a lot of folks who were around the team at that time who worked for the organization, YouTube – we did a lot of research everywhere – articles anything that we could find. We sort of incorporated into the narrative and some stuff we had to tie in together for dramatization purposes.

AM: Obviously with the people that were involved, John C Reilly (Gangs of New York, The Aviator, Anchorman II: The Legend Continues), Jason Clarke (Brotherhood, Chappaquiddick, Silk Road), Rob Morgan (Stranger Things, The United States vs. Billie Holiday, Don’t Look Up), Jason Segel (How I Met Your Mother, Dispatches from Elsewhere, Hotel Artemis) and Adrien Brody (The Grand Budapest Hotel, Peaky Blinders, Succession) etc, there are actors in there where there is a lot of secret sauce. You have actors who were athletic but didn’t play basketball and having to do so for this role, having Quincy Isaiah play such a key and iconic person who was new to this platform, how did all of this come together to get that energy, to make an audience believe that these people who be playing this game even though they didn’t necessarily have this background?

RB: Francine Maisler (Uncut Gems, Being the Ricardos, Dune) is our casting director and she did a great job finding folks. Sometimes you get lucky like in the case of Quincy who is from Michigan and was an athlete – a football player. He had to lose 80lbs or so to come down to being able to have a Magic Johnson-like look. Solomon Hughes who plays, Kareem Adbul-Jabbar is an educator, is 7-feet tall, plays jazz and he played basketball on a professional level before. You just get lucky sometimes. I think that that’s across the board in finding people that not only have the talent but also the emotional stuff.

If you think about our players, they have to learn how to play the game because some had never played the game before, they had to be convincing to learn how to play a particular way that their character played, they had to go through physical training everyday and then they had to learn their lines and then they had to act. So there would be times when they would have to come from training, be on set, leave their work, leave set and go and play basketball everyday for however long – for a year or so. Then there is the training that went into it before hand and always having a good attitude about it as they were going. We got really really fortunate to find the folks that we found.

AM: When did you realize that you were going to be Maurice?

RB: I’ll tell you when I was working, Max was working on a movie called Worth in NY that’s on Netflix now. I was working on the first season of Wu-Tang: An American Saga. I was in Staten Island, he was in Manhattan. We would meet on the weekends and we would go over it with Jim Hecht and Rebecca Bertuch (Worth) and we would work on putting the show together. Every now and then, this name would pop up, Maurice, Maurice, Maurice – like who the hell is Maurice? Oh, you’re going to see and it was like an inside joke. They knew that I didn’t know. When we were officially on board and we started in the writer’s room in LA, we had all the pictures up of the actors on the wall and then there was a picture of me. I was like, “why is my picture on the wall?” They said, you’re going to play Maurice and I was like, “oh, ok – haha Maurice.” So Max actually wrote Maurice’s lines and the only scene that I had at one time was the scene with Pat Reily where I don’t let him in The Forum. I thought, “ok, I can do that, I’ve been a security guard my whole damn life!” I know how to say you can’t come in. You don’t even need to even write out the lines just let me stand there and I know how to not let you in some place. Then, all of a sudden, I started seeing Maurice pop up in other scripts! He's like a leprechaun where he sort of shows up in different places and I'm like, "why am I popping up?” and then I had a walk and talk which is very difficult as an actor because you have to walk, you have to think and you have to move which was in episode 5 where I had that scene. I was nervous about that scene. Actually, I messed up the scene that is on. I messed up a line but Gabby Hoffman (High Maintenance, Girls, Transparent) who plays Claire Rothman is so great, you would never know because she kept going and I kept going and so that was it and they cut and we went on with the day – but I messed up.

It's cool, the network likes it, everyone likes him and I think that Maurice is going to come back and probably say more words.

AM: We always like when he pops up!

RB: Well, thank you! As long as I stay big and relatively menacing and intimidating, Maurice will probably be around.

AM: What has been your biggest takeaway of being part of this particular project, seeing it come together and the reception of people loving this?

RB: Anytime you work hard at a thing for a long time that is intended to entertain people, you always want that to land the way it is intended so that people are entertained. I think that we’ve got a great reception and that people really seem to like it and it’s sort of gratifying because I and a lot of people give a lot when you do these sort of things and it’s not easily assembled. For me certainly being able to talk about African American culture as it pertains to sports in a way that is sort of elevated is always an honor. It’s a good thing.

AM: Well, you guys have been greenlit for a second season. What does that look like, what do you want to tackle – will it continue with these same players or will it be another part of Laker history or even another time in NBA history for a Winning Time situation?

RB: As of the moment, the plan is to continue on in the same narrative and to just keep telling the story as we have been. Even now, when we first started the process before, we were going in the third or fourth iteration of what you see on screen now – we were going to go a lot faster. Then, the decision was made during COVID to slow down the process of storytelling and we had to go back to the drawing board a couple of times to slow it down. I say all of that to say that you never know. We could speed up a couple of seasons, we can keep going the way that it is, but I think that the plan for now is to continue going in the direction that it is.

AM: One of the things that I enjoy especially with a lot of the HBO shows is that there is a companion podcast and literally, I can’t wait until Mon to listen to the show which drops right after the episode airs on Sun. I listen to JB Smoove and then I listen to your podcast. It’s great to get your insights, what’s going on – the Rob Morgan episode was really great to hear. Every episode is great as there are so many tidbits that can be enjoyed. How did you get attached to hosting this podcast and how much input do you have over who ends up being on the episode with you?

RB: Very similar to how I became Maurice. Somebody thought that it would be a good idea to have me do it and my first reaction was, I have never done a podcast before and they were like, “oh you can do it.” I think that I tried to back out a couple of times and they were like no just give it a shot. I think that I got better as time went on which is sort of the course of life, the more you do it, the better you get at the thing that you do. But, it also helps that I know everybody. Everybody that I have had on so far whether it was Snoop Dogg, Rob Morgan or Quincy, or Max or whoever, I know them. It’s like having a conversation with someone who is a friend and not so much like talking to someone who is a stranger.

They always ask me who I would like to have on and I try to spread it around between the cast members, but also the people behind the scenes. I had Todd Banhazl (Janelle Monae: Dirty Computer, They Call Me Magic, Hustlers), I had Max, I had Jim Hecht, Rebecca, I had Sarah Scott (Pam & Tommy, The Offer, The Flight Attendant) our intimacy coordinator. I had Idan Ravin whose the basketball coordinator. I had our director Salli Richardson (The Chi, Altered Carbon, The Wheel of Time) and Tanya Hamilton (Big Sky, The Deuce, Snowfall). I try to mix it up where you have one of the cast members and then someone who is a technical part of the team so that for people who are interested in being part of the business as one time I was, you can actually hear some of what they do and realize that there are a number of jobs besides the big 4 or 5 at producer, director, writer. There are a lot of other things to be done and some things may spark to someone and hopefully that podcast can help a little bit.

AM: We love seeing the birth of the NBA as we know it today as this entertainment platform with next level dancers, club lounges and had this came together with Dr. Buss. This has become the standard for what it means to go to a NBA game. Being able to hear more about Jack McKinney and his time with the Lakers. I knew he was a coach for the Pacers, but I didn’t know about his backstory. What is it that you want audiences to walk away with after watching this season or subsequent seasons?

RB: Always with our show, we have what you know and the thing that you can Google and find out. Who won the game, who lost the game and those types of things. But there’s also those things that you didn’t know. Like in the case of Jack McKinney, a lot of people had forgotten not just him, but the accident that he was in – the basketball accident and how that changed the course of the Lakers coaching dynamic. So, being able to tell some of those stories and show the Shakespearean dynamic of the coaching system with Paul West head and Pat Riley, most people know Pat Riley being the Lakers coach and they sort of identify with just him, but there were other guys too.

I think that the other side of that coin is Spencer Haywood who was a big part of NBA free agency and a lot of how we look at basketball today in the fact that we can look at James Harden and see him go from team to team to team or LeBron just being able to go to the Heat and all of that – a lot of that has to do with Spencer Haywood and going to court to battle for free agency rights for players. When I was growing up watching the NBA, I’m from Maryland so we had the Bullets, now the Wizards. Usually if a player got drafted, he played with one team for his entire career. It was big news when a player would move from one team to another.

Now, when you look at the change and the evolution both in the style of play when you look at the Showtime offense of Jack McKinney that evolved and to Spencer Haywood’s contribution, that you see in these 2 gentleman, it has a lot to do with the way that the game is played and it’s rarely recognized over the course of history. Anytime we can incorporate things that folks don’t know, it’s always a treat!

AM: Usually, when an episode concludes, we’re usually Googling about 4 things! It becomes a great way to understand how far the game has come in really such a short period of time and how things are so different and the shoulders that people stood on to get to where we are now.

RB: Exactly.

AM: Where did your love for comic books come from. You have Killadelphia that you’re writing, Marvel, Star Wars universes and Lucas Film Studios – where did this come from?

RB: The only inciting influence that I can find in my mind and my heart was that my mother was a school teacher. Before computers and all of that stuff, she would go to the public library to do her lesson plans and she would bring me. There was always this area where you would have kids like in a pen, your Cat in the Hat, Curious George books etc. I had no interest in any of those books because under those books was a box and in that box was comic books. I knew exactly where it was and I don’t think that they ever changed them in all the years that I went. I would just sit in the corner and read them for hours. It sort of became a thing where it was infectious you know? The moral throughline and some of the stories were more evolved than what my 5 or 6 year old mind could handle but I was intrigued by that idea. Then later, people would give them to me and my grandfather would call them funny books back then. They would give me a stack of them and it was a way to keep me quiet. Later on, when I would have odd jobs, I would buy them. This was during a period of time where you could get comic books anywhere – the convenience store, liquor store, virtually any place that had a spinner rack full of comics. Now, you have to go to a comic shop on Wed to get them. But back then, they were readily available and they were only 20 cents or a quarter. Now they’re $4 if not more.

It was just a love that just evolved along with my life. In the beginning, it was mostly about the art and the story. Then in my teen and later years, there were guys like Alan Moore (Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Swamp Thing) and Grant Morrison (Doom Patrol, New X-Men, Fantastic Four 1234) and Frank Miller (Daredevil, The Dark Knight Returns, Sin City), they sort of made it like literature and evolved into something that was more serious and that kept me involved and then later television and film like most people. So there has always been this relationship.

When I was younger, I tried to write comics professionally, but couldn’t find a way in. Like a lot of things that I’m sure people feel with television and film, it’s a tough nut to crack. But even more so back then, there weren’t a whole lot of African American characters and there wasn’t a big indie space when I was coming up. It was just Marvel and DC and every once in a while there’d be a new company that would pop in. They didn’t have the same distribution chain as DC so you were relegated to those 10 characters maybe if there were 10. I think that a lot of times, companies back then felt like unless you were writing for a character of color, what’s the point of hiring this person? So for me, I wanted to take a shot at writing a comic so when I was on the show Runaways which was a Marvel show, they liked my work and I sort of leveraged the appreciation of my work to say, “hey if you guys have any relationship with Marvel Publishing, I’d love to write a comic book.” They gave me Falcon. I quickly realized that I had no idea what the hell I was doing or how to write a comic book. I just took my shot. It was received ok-ish. Then again like the podcast, I kept doing it again and again and again and I got better and better and better at it and then I had the idea for Killadelphia and started a whole new thing. Now I write 10 books a month and I have my own company and it’s taken on a life all of it’s own.

AM: Which is amazing and I know in looking at your IG, you were talking about The Mandalorian which I’m a fan of. You have a project coming out in June – can you tell us more?

RB: Yes, it’s June the 22nd, The Mandalorian adaptation of the TV show and it’s the first adaptation that Marvel and Lucas Film have done with a project. It’s basically straight adaptation of that story. They don’t let you deviate too far from the story because it’s Star Wars cannon and you can’t really interfere or add new things because it’s connected to the television show. So I basically do my version of the television show would be.

AM: It’s still very cool though!

RB: Yes, it’s an honor to play in that space.

I just finished IG-88 Star Wars: War of the Bounty Hunters and I did Lando Double or Nothing earlier. I love to play in the space. I have a Luke Cage short that’s coming up and maybe a Luke Cage miniseries coming up for Marvel. So anytime you get to play in that space, it’s always fun because it’s such a big fan base that you get to connect with that many people is always an honor.

AM: You created Zombie Love Studio which deals with creating original graphic novels and things of that nature, what are some things coming out of there that you want to highlight?

RB: The first book is Blacula, a reboot of the Blacula character from Blaxploitation era in Oct/Nov which should be dropping then. I also have another book, Florence and Normandie and alien attack story that takes place on the corner of Florence and Normandie famous because of the Rodney King riots that started from there. I’m writing that with Xzibit. I have Tales from the Crip with Snoop Dogg which is the Crip Keeper. I have a book called Crownsville which is set in one of the first black mental asylums in America that’s a ghost story.

There's a bunch of other things that we’re developing that are moving along. There aren’t enough hours in the day, but I’m really excited about it all and it’s coming together slowly but surely.

AM: The depth of what you’ve done is truly phenomenal. What are things on your bucket list that you have yet to do or areas that you want to put into that body of work that you haven’t but that you’re still interested in tackling.

RB: Well certainly, developing the Zombie Love books and Killadelphia and things like that into my Substack page where I do 4 of the books. 3 that are connected to the Killadelphia world which is the book that I do at Image. There are 3 books that I do at Image, Killadelphia, Nita Hawes’ Nightmare Blog and Monarch an alien attack miniseries that I am doing. My Substack page has 3 other series, Johnny Gatlin who is a gun slinger in hell and hell is like the Wild West. 20 Degrees Past Rigor which is a zombie story set in Flint, Michigan where zombies are connected to the polluted waters of Flint. The Butcher of Black Bottom which is a serial killer story set in 1920’s Black Bottom section of Detroit. Then there’s Elysium Gardens which is in the back of Killadelphia which has an ongoing story on a Substack page. So, there are those books as well. There’s a lot of stuff and next, I hope to adopt a lot of those things into other forms of media whether it’s animated, live action or television or those kinds of things.

AM: Because you have so many projects that are just in constant rotation, how do you deal with the overlap? Do you have to be at a certain point before you take other things on – do you slice it up like a pizza and mix it the best that you can?

RB: Ha! That’s basically it. I try to tackle each thing as the day comes at me. I usually get up at 4 in the morning and then I start writing and I get the comic book stuff done in the morning. Then I tackle my day jobs like Winning Time or anything else that I have in front of me and I take it as the day comes. Whoever is yelling the most that is owed the thing to them – so yeah! Whoever’s voice is the loudest at the moment!

AM: I think that the time that we’re living in right now, although there is still a need for a lot more representation, to think of myself now versus the younger me who wouldn’t have thought to know that there would be an Ava Du Vernay (A Wrinkle in Time, Queen Sugar, Girls Trip), yourself, Shonda Rhimes (Bridgerton, Inventing Anna, Grey’s Anatomy) all these people that are moving storytelling forward. How important is it for you to reflect that in your work and to have POC be able to see themselves as well as for others to understand why they need to be an ally and to make these spaces more open?

RB: Well I think it’s important because the world doesn’t connect in the same way anymore like physically. We don’t talk to each other the way that we used to and it wasn’t perfect back then either. It’s more important than ever to be able to tell stories that have a ring of truth or some semblance of honesty. That way you get to see people as they are good, bad and indifferent more so than as a caricature or something that feels contrived in some way. I think that a lot of the biases that we hold with each other comes from those depictions. I know since 1619, a concerted effort was made speaking directly to African American culture to make us less than human. There’s one idea of being less than human, but you have to reinforce that on a regular basis. So you either make them caricatures or villains – one extreme or the other. If that idea has the ability to sort of ferment for 400 years or more then you’re at a place where it almost becomes truth because you’re so used to seeing that be the case.

So when you have this culture that is fighting for a slice of the pie or some semblance for respect and dignity, living in a culture and you’re sort of burdened by living with that depiction. It's really a hard thing to overcome because then even the culture itself starts to believe it – is this who I am and some people do. That can be problematic in its own way because you start to devalue yourself and people who look like you.

So I think that the more folks that can get in for various gender, sexual orientation, race or whatever it may be – to be able to speak to your truth in an honest way cannot only help you and the group that you’re in but also people outside of that group so that they have a better understanding of who you are and the struggle that you navigate just to be a human being and to have a human experience.

AM: Who are 3 people that you feel were profound, instrumental or helpful to be in your career?

RB: Damon Wayans (My Wife and Kids, Lethal Weapon, Major Payne) is always first! He was the first person that gave me an opportunity to work on a television show. Were it not for him, I wouldn’t be here. Don Reo (Everybody Hates Chris, Two and a Half Men, The Ranch) who was the showrunner and creator with Damon on My Wife and Kids. He helped take whatever raw ability I had and allowed me into a space in a way that pushed me to a space where I was able to see for myself what I had to do. I’m eternally grateful to him as well. I have to say that there is a tie for number 3 Allen Hughes (Dead Presidents, Menace II Society, The Book of Eli) of the Hughes Brothers, a director. He helped me to bridge art and commerce. He gave me an opportunity to write in a different type of way and helped me find my way of doing art. He was very supportive in that. Then, Max Borenstein who is our showrunner on Winning Time who sort of did the same thing but in a different way. There’s a push sometimes that you need to get out of where you have been to where you want to be and Max was very helpful in being able to push me. Beyond him pushing me, was me pushing me as well. There are a lot of other people and if you had given me 10 or 20, I could have continued on with other people who have helped me even if it was just survival – that’s important as well. So when it comes to writing and being a professional writer, those people come to mind.

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PHOTOGRAPHY CREDITS | PG 78 Warrick Page/HBO MAX | PG 81 - 85 STARZ/American Gods | PG 87 + 88 STARZ/Heels | PG 91 -102 HBO MAX/Winning Time |

Read the APR ISSUE #77 of Athleisure Mag and see IT’S ALL JUST STORY | Rodney Barnes in mag.