FAITH, FAMILY, FOOD CHEF AARTI SEQUEIRA

This month, We're making the transition from the Summer to the Fall. We're thinking about all the things that this season is perfect for from still being able to enjoy being outdoors with a few layers, the crispness that begins to encompass the air, a number of fun festivals, apple/pumpkin picking, and so much more! The last few months have involved being out and about with friends and family, and of course the upcoming holiday season.

This sense of community and coming together with food is something that Chef Aarti Sequeira embodies. We've had the pleasure of interviewing her in our NOV ISSUE #71 a few years ago when her My Family Recipe Journal was released. At that time we talked about how she came to food, being a chef, Food Network's Halloween Wars, and more.

This month, we caught up with her to talk about her latest cookbook that came out last year - UNWIND: A Devotional Cookbook For The Harried and Hungry, food festivals that she is participated in and why she likes being involved, hosting Halloween Wars, why she likes being part of the Food Network family and more!

ATHLEISURE MAG: It was so great chatting with you a few years ago where we talked about how you got into food, your food journey and everything that led up to the Family Recipe Journal that you dropped as at that time, you were a few days out from dropping that book!

So before we talk about things that have gone on since that book and things that are coming up, we’d love to know if you remember the dish that you had that made you first fall in love with food?

CHEF AARTI SEQUEIRA: Oh wow! I mean, I don't remember doing this because I was just a baby but my mum, my most vivid memory of me with food is that she would be making dinner and she would just you know pick me up and put me on the counter next to her chopping board and she would just be slicing onions, garlic and ginger and she'd look away for a second. And you know, with my little like you know how babies don't have like knuckles, right?

AM: Right!

CHEF AS: They just have dimples. It’s just those teeny, tiny dimples in a fist and I'd grab the onions and I was just shoving them in my mouth!

AM: Oh!

CHEF AS: She couldn't, she couldn't believe it and I liked it! It’s ironic because I hate raw onions now.

AM: Right!

CHEF AS: But I loved it back then, and I think that, you know, just from then on that the kitchen is just always where I've wanted to be and there's always been food in my mouth haha.

AM: Which is a good thing! I feel like if people were less hangry, that things might be better!

CHEF AS: Well that is true!

AM: Well, when we last chatted you were like a couple of days out actually from the My Family Recipe Journal, but since that conversation in talking with you, you also have released UNWIND: A Devotional Cookbook For The Harried and Hungry. Can you tell us a bit about the book, why you wanted to create it, and what can we expect when we're reading this?

CHEF AS: Yeah, I really created it for people like me and maybe people who are not like me, but anyone who experiences that sort of 4:30pm/5:30pm salt in the wound?

AM: Yes!

CHEF AS: You’ve had a full day and you've been all things to all people and then you’re like, “and now I’ve got to make dinner?”

AM: Right!

CHEF AS: Are you kidding? And it feels you know, it’s the last thing usually between you and bed.

AM: Yeah.

CHEF AS: Haha or you and crappy television, you know what I mean?

AM: Exactly!

CHEF AS: It’s the last hump that you have to get over. And I just found myself taking this thing that had once been my joy and once been my Sanctuary and starting to resent. It was like I started to phone it in and that's not right because you know, I have children now!

AM: Right!

CHEF AS: I didn't want to be giving them or serving them resentment at the dinner table.

AM: Of course!

CHEF AS: So, one of the things that I remembered is that there was this woman that owned an Indian grocery store in LA. and when I had to talked to her about cooking, she had mentioned that she had always prayed before she cooked and that was such a light bulb moment for me! She's Hindu, and I'm Christian. and I just remember going, well if she's doing it - why am I not doing it, you know?

AM: Mmm

CHEF AS: So I did start praying before I cooked and I just found that it opened up a passageway, like a spiritual passageway that took this very mundane chore. This thing that I resented and helped me see it as a moment of sacred connection and it redeemed it, right? And what I found was that in what started off like, "oh Lord, please let this dish turn out right or okay,” you know what I mean? Or let the kids like it or not have anything fall on floor – turned into…

“You know, one of the reasons I'm really upset right now, Jesus is that I'm really feeling discouraged that I didn't get that job that I wanted.”

AM: Right.

CHEF AS: Or, “I'm really scared about this thing that's happening in my family or any number of things.” And so, while I was cooking, that's when that conversation was happening. And I found that there was so much healing.

AM: Yup.

CHEF AS: That healing that was happening through that whole process was amazing. And I was like, well, if it works for me, I would like to be the sort of guide that says, “hey guys, this can work for you too.” This can be a moment, a half hour, 45 minutes in the day, where okay, maybe you didn't have your quiet time today, or maybe you did, and you need another one. This can be It. And I think the lesson that I learned from that is that, you mentioned it! You know, so often when we're walking into the kitchen at that hour, we are tired and we are hungry and we are hangry. And that's when quite often we are in that space. So, if we can get into the practice of turning our eyes towards heaven, when we are at our worst in the kitchen, then we will do that when we are at our worst in the car, in a meeting, doing laundry, talking to someone that's very triggering.

AM: Oh yes!

CHEF AS: All of this stuff, it just builds up muscle in us. So, I now have learned after that experience and after writing UNWIND that how you show up in the kitchen and how you come out of that kitchen, is great practice for how you show up and leave every situation in your life.

AM: That really resonates because a lot of times when there's projects being worked on whether it's a series of business meetings or calls I need to make I'll do a prayer before.

CHEF AS: Yes!

AM: It could be a project or anything I’m doing where I need that reset, it allows my mind to take a pause a beat and then to almost get closer to certain things that maybe have nothing to do with what's going on. But you're able to kind of like categorize it and you just come out a lot better of a person versus me just running out and being like argh!!!

CHEF AS: It is good to sort of slow down. You know, I think a lot of people say, get present. And for me, getting present with myself is just not enough because myself is the problem. So I need to get present with God. That is the one that's going to pull me out of myself and actually fix it.

AM: That's true. That's very true. And, you know, do you find that, because I find that the books that you've done, it is so personal because you are talking about, you know, getting in touch with yourself, getting in touch with God, getting into a better place. Is it is it more difficult to have these books that have a cookbook component as well as this other inspirational component too? Do you feel the process in writing it is longer? Do you feel that you get, you know what I mean - like, because you're doing two different components putting it together. It's beautiful, and seamless, but I know a lot of times if I'm writing something that comes from more of a personal place in my heart, I'm gonna grapple with that for like 80 more hours.

CHEF AS: Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think writing a cookbook is a much more difficult process than I imagined. I think before I kind of got into this world, I was like, oh, well, you know, you just write your recipes and blah blah.

AM: Right!

CHEF AS: But then once it becomes your way of life, at least for me, you know, I'm super critical.

AM: Yeah, same.

CHEF AS: Super critical of myself and so I'm questioning every instinct, every idea, every finished product. Wondering if it's good enough, wondering, if I've written it well, wondering - you know saying the worst things to myself. And so, then couple that with trying to be an ambassador for God.

AM: Right.

CHEF AS: There is always like, there is so much room for failure. I did find it to be a really, really difficult process. We also did it so quickly. We did the whole thing in about 6 or 7 months.

AM: Whoa!

CHEF AS: You know, most people take like a year or 2 years because, you know, some of the people that I'm seeing putting cookbooks out, they're like, “you know, this has been the past 2 or 3 years of my life,” and I'm like, oh my God! You know, I don't know what's worse. Like I don't know if it's worse to live with something for 3 years and live with that kind of pressure for three years.

AM: Exactly.

CHEF AS: Am I a marathon runner or am I a sprinter? I think I've always been a sprinter.

AM: Yup.

CHEF AS: So I think that God kind of knew, you know, what kind of project it needed to be for me. But yeah, I mean, I think I even posted on my social media about how difficult it was that like the process of creativity was not like - was not like a scene from Ratatouille and it has never been for me. It's never been - it's very rarely a moment of like the muse, you know, and going to bed where it’s saying, “hey, why don't you pull tamarind and ginger together and build ribs,” like it’s very rare that that happens. A lot of it is full on. It feels like you're working out, you are throwing weights around picking them back up again, throwing them down again that was the process for me and getting to write that book meant that I had to employ 2 very different parts of my brain and try to make them make sense. But it was also a great challenge, like, I really enjoyed it and I sort of felt like this idea for me felt like a download from heaven and so I was like at this moment in time, I'm the only person that is doing this. So I have to believe that I am also being totally equipped to do it. I have to thank my husband who helped me so much because he loves words and he loves the Bible and so it's really helpful to have him at my side literally for some of them like writing portions of it and then me being able to then put it in my own words. He was like such a such a rock to me.

AM: That's amazing!

Are you already thinking about that next cookbook? I mean, you've already done, you know, these last two. I mean, I know you had one before obviously, but you know, that's so quick between the recipe book. Now it's UNWIND! Is there something in the future that you're kind of sketching out?

CHEF AS: I don't know, you know, I think cookbooks are so hard because frankly there are just so many of them and it's hard to capture people's attention in between. I mean, I'd love to write another one, but I think I also would like some time to really fine tune you know, where is my cooking at this point? What is it that excites me. And what you know? I just feel a little bit all over the place because my career has really, has really taken off it feels like this year.

AM: Yeah.

CHEF AS: I’m traveling, so much of that. I'm probably cooking for other people more than I'm cooking for my family.

AM: Wow.

CHEF AS: And yeah. And so, I want to get back to cooking for my family because I feel like that's like truly the essence of who I am or who I want to be. And so, I'm open to it, of course, and I'm open to even doing another one because I, I do think that I'm proud of it. I really, I'm really proud of it. And even, you know, and every time, just even the other day, someone sent me a photo of one of the recipes that they made and the fact that they were doing it in their small group and they were going through the devotions together. I mean, it just is like so meaningful to me more meaningful than anything else I've worked on, because yes, they're making the recipes, but they're also reading the words that I wrote and reflecting and when I read the words that I wrote, I'm so very convinced that I was not the one that was writing them because I don't recognize it!

AM: Haha right!

CHEF AS: You know, I'm a little nervous to go through that whole process again because, frankly, it was really rough. But when I look at it and I look at the fruit of it, I'm like, well, I mean, hi, I get to partner with God again and that’s kind of amazing.

AM: One thing I love when I'm looking at your IG, I love your Monday Motivations. I think they're so amazing.

CHEF AS: Oh thank you!

AM: And as we are dropping on Monday, do you have a Monday Motivation for us that we can share with our readers?

CHEF AS: Ooo. What have I been toggling in my mind? I think the message that I feel like keeps coming up is - if God is knocking on the door, he's kind of yelling through the door at you.

AM: Ha! I feel that one!

CHEF AS: Which is kind of, “are you more interested in what I can do through you or are you more interested in spending time with Me?”

AM: Ooo ...

CHEF AS: Because I have to say, I took inspiration from someone who posted it online - that concept, at least. But I have been feeling it -

AM: Yeah.

CHEF AS: You know what I mean?

AM: Yeah.

CHEF AS: The first one is about me.

AM: Yup.

CHEF AS: And the second one is about God.

AM: It's about Him. Yeah, you gave me goosebumps because I yeah, I thought about something very similar to that, a couple months ago, and I was like, well am I really trying to do that because I want to amplify Him or am I trying to do it so I can boost myself up? Like wow, yeah.

CHEF AS: Yeah, it hurts. So I did not like it.

AM: 100%

CHEF AS: When I saw it on IG and I still don't, but I think that's the point. I think that it's –

AM: It’s uncomfortable -

CHEF AS: It’s uncomfortable and I think those of us who are sort of our own turbines, who are in that sort of entrepreneurial space, it becomes a lot about me and what can I do? What can I accomplish and what's the next thing to build? How do I build on what I've already built? All that stuff and so then we try to kind of loop God into it saying, “you know use me for whatever it is that you want,” but you know intrinsically, we're like yeah we want to get some action, right?

AM: Right.

CHEF AS: You want to rustle up some action. And I think, especially for me, like I'm not really good at sitting very quietly.

AM: Same

CHEF AS: Or sitting in a posture of listening or just being or just any of those things.

AM: It's a good reminder.

CHEF AS: Yeah, that would be my Monday Motivation is just go sit and do nothing for a minute.

AM: Yeah, wow. Yeah.

CHEF AS: Haha I know!

AM: Well, you are always traveling! You were just on an amazing trip in Peru with some of our faves who have previously been in our issues - Chef Duff Goldman, Chef Fariyal Abdullahi who was our AUG ISSUE #104 cover, and Chef Marcel Vigneron. I love an immersive trip and it seemed like you guys got to combine your culinary knowledge along with those that were indigenous to the area and people, as well as to be part of some amazing cultural activities!

Right now your IG has a number of food festivals you’ve been at as well as those that are coming up! We are looking forward to the Food Network NYC Wine Food Festival that takes place mid Oct. and I know that you’re not involved in that one, but Iove being able to go to festivals like this. What do you love about participating in food festival and can you tell me more about the Del Mar Wine + Food Festival that is next month? I mean that Spice Girls Dinner seems pretty amazing.

CHEF AS: Yeah, food festivals are so fun because it's sort of like, you know, that everybody there is one of you, you know what I mean?

AM: Yup!

CHEF AS: Like, these are people that love food and love food television and love to celebrate and love to gather!

AM: Yes!

CHEF AS: The Gathering thing to me has really been feeling more and more important. I think because we have so many years of not gathering.

AM: Yeah that was tough!

CHEF AS: I heard once I was listening to a podcast and I'm not saying I've ever read Alexis de Tocqueville, but I guess when he visited America he was like, “the thing that's very interesting about Americans is that they love to gather.”

AM: Facts!

CHEF AS: They will find any reason to gather and so when we weren't gathering, it was like one of the most un-American things that we could have done.

AM: Yeah.

CHEF AS: So I think that's one of the things that I have come to really appreciate about food festivals is we're all together. We're breaking bread, we're maybe having a couple cocktails.

AM: Yes!

CHEF AS: You sort of feel like, this is who we are. This is the essence of our humanity, the essence of our identity as a people, you know? It's a very unifying moment. I think, especially for people who are creating content, whether it's, you know, on traditional streams, or on social media streams, or YouTube or whatever it is, you know, it kind of goes out into the ether and even if you get likes, yes, you get some sort of feedback, but to see the actual faces! To sort of interact with the actual spirits of people who were like, “I saw when you did that thing.” Oh, it feels real and it feels really gratifying in that moment, selfishly. And it feels very encouraging, honestly - to say, okay, I'm on the right path, I'm going to keep going because it can feel like a very isolating experience.

You know, basically, like I remember when Twitter came along we were all like, oh, doesn't it sort of feel like there's one million people and each of them has a megaphone and they're all yelling? So no one's listening to each other and so sometimes things like food festivals can be so gratifying because here are the people that have been listening!

AM: 100%

CHEF AS: You can see, you can then engage like, oh this is what touches people. And this is what people find necessary. And this is what sort of they find unique about when they come to my corner of IG and it can help sort of fine tune your voice.

AM: Exactly!

Tell me about the Spice Girls Dinner at the Del Mar Food Festival!

CHEF AS: Yeah, I'm excited about Del Mar because not only because it's a very beautiful food festival, this whole thing was spearheaded by Troy Johnson and his wife, Claire Johnson and you know I've known Troy forever for like decades through Guy's Grocery Games.

AM: Ok!

CHEF AS: No, no it’s not been that long! So this is the, you know, they already have babies, but this is another baby of theirs. They're really putting their money where their mouths are and trying to encourage the same thing, the sense of community and gathering, and celebration, and celebrating chefs who are, you know, taking risks in the kitchen and so, I'm really excited to go see people, but also support people who are risking it all you know.

AM: Wow.

CHEF AS: Like Troy and Claire, I think our dinner is going to be so interesting because I love Claudia Sandoval (winner of MasterChef S6, Judge on MasterChef Latinos, Host of Taste of the Border on Discovery+). I love the way she cooks. She has a really strong connection to where she comes from and in a way that I love because she sometimes will take the humblest of dishes, like, her grandmother's beans and she won't change it all that much. She will present it just like that because she's like they're actually good enough. That's very inspiring to me because there's, you know, a lot of the food that we all grew up with, it's not restaurant food.

AM: Correct.

CHEF AS: It's home food. I'm trying to figure out a way to gussy that up so that it looks pretty in an Instagram photo sometimes can feel very difficult!

AM: Daunting, yeah.

CHEF AS: So I I think that it's, I think it's really, it's been very inspiring to me to go, no, the dal, just the way it is. The dal just the way I grew up with is enough and good enough! So, I'm really excited to see where our spice palettes cross over, compliment each other, and contrast with each other. I think it's going to be a really fun dinner and I'm really excited also for the wine pairing because Neeta Mittal, owner of LXV Wines - she's Indian and so she's got a particular palette when she's looking at wines because she's going well, what wine will play well, with these spices - will amplify them and vice versa. So, I think it's gonna be a really interesting unique dinner in that way.

I'm relatively new to this circuit you know, compared to some people that have been doing it for a while and so you're only honestly, you're only as good as the organizers of the festival. It is such a beast to organize these things. There's always something that you didn't think about.

AM: Right, for sure.

CHEF AS: So that's a huge factor to me! I want to be at a festival where we’re all you know, you do your job, I do my job, but we do our job so that we can support each other and make each other look good. That's, you know, that's one of the big things.

AM: That's amazing.

CHEF AS: I love going to festivals where there's a lot of great food on display, you know, especially a lot of adventurous food because I'm like, oh, the people that are going to show up here are going to be willing to try things that, you know, they've maybe never tried before.

I just did the Ilani Wine and Food Festival at the Ilani Resort just outside of Portland. That one was so amazing because even though you know this festival's been going on forever, I made these Jackfruit Sliders with a date barbecue sauce. That was a two for two in terms of things that people haven't tried before. People were so willing like, when you know, I remember someone came over and they were like, “your pulled pork was amazing.” I was like, “that was jackfruit!” So I love going to festivals where I can bring something that someone hasn't had before. Not just for the the purpose of maybe trying something new but, then also that people go home and they're like, I'm going to buy that and I'm gonna work that into my meal plan, or whatever it is. You know, that's just like I want to be of service, and that's really helpful but I love festivals like that where I can be of service.

AM: I think that that’s amazing. And I saw those pictures of the Jackfruit Sliders. And I was just like, whoa, I've had jackfruit but never thought about barbecue sauce and dates – but ok!

CHEF AS: Yeah, well, you know, I had the barbecue sauce ready to go. I had that idea. I was just trying to think because I didn’t think that I was gonna have the time or the energy to like slow cook a ton of pork.

AM: Right.

CHEF AS: So then it was like, what about, you know, I think actually I was talking to Damaris Phillips (2013 winner of Food Network Star, Guy’s Grocery Games Judge, author of Southern Girl Meets Vegetarian Boy) about it and then we came up with that idea together, so that was super helpful.

AM: Love that! Ok, so Halloween Wars. I mean, first of all, I can't even believe that we're sitting in the fall.

CHEF AS: Yeah!

AM: It's rainy here in New York today and I'm like, wait, the holiday season is around the corner. I always know it's around the corner because I see the promos for Halloween Wars.

CHEF AS: Ha ha! I know! It’s all a long slippery slope from there!

AM: Yup! So what are you excited about for this season? I always look forward to the different things and I'm always amazed at how grotesque in the best way possible that some of the things end up being, I'm like, oh my God, who does that? I'm so scared! But at the same time, the baking capabilities and dedication to craft is next level when they’re on the clock!

CHEF AS: This season is so great because each of the teams is helmed by an All-Star. So each of these people have won before, they know what it feels like and they know what it takes. So, they’re kind of acting like team leaders to their teammates. There's a lot to, you know, you whenever you go into competition, you don't cook, carve, sculpt the way that you do –

AM: Exactly.

CHEF AS: At your bakery or at your place, you know? You've got to, you've got to do it in a way that is a work smarter not harder kind of mindset.

AM: Yeah.

CHEF AS: And yet, you're still going for perfection as possible. So that's why this season is so great because and that's why that from day one like the displays were already almost like finale level.

AM: Ooo.

CHEF AS: Perfect, right?

AM: Yeah -

CHEF AS: You had these people who are veterans informing the entire process. So that's what's so great about this season.

AM: That is so exciting!

Tyler Florence’s, The Great Food Truck Race is one of my favorite shows. So, seeing you on the finale, this last season, I was like, wait, there's Aarti!

CHEF AS: Ahhh. Yeah, the food was legitimately awesome! You know, sometimes it's like you know with competition you have a lot of grace because things are not gonna - you just don't have the same amount of time that you would at home or in a restaurant. So I was so impressed, every bite that I took, I was like this tastes completely dialed in. It was amazing. It was truly amazing.

AM: Well, are there any other shows coming up that we should keep an eye out for because I always love when I see you at, like, Tournament of Champions or you're on Guys Grocery Games. And I'm like, this lady is working.

CHEF AS: I'm trying to work. I am trying to work. I just got something and I don't think they've announced it yet.

AM: Okay.

CHEF AS: That's going to be super exciting!

AM: Amazing.

CHEF AS: Thank you! And then you know, all the usual like Grocery Games and all that kind of stuff is still coming down the pipe. Yeah, it's just always such a privilege to be part of the part of the family over at Food Network. Whenever we get to see people, you know, you get the sense that that Food Network is on all day.

AM: Exactly.

CHEF AS: For some people, you know what I mean? It's just very cool that even if I'm not currently shooting something and they turn it on, more than likely one of us is on there. You know? It feels really intimate to be in people's homes that way, and I think that that's how they feel about us, you know, based on the reactions we get. So it's really such a privilege.

AM: I love that and are there just any upcoming projects In general that you would like to share to get out there or or, you know, just things that you have going on?

CHEF AS: Yeah. I mean, one of the most exciting things that's coming up in the short term is that I'm expanding my line with QVC.

AM: That’s amazing!

CHEF AS: Yeah, really amazing! It's such a huge community to be able to dive into and QVC has been so generous and so sweet with me to sort of pull me into the fold and say, hey what do you think about doing this? And here are the kinds of things that our people love and how would you put your own spin on it. And so, you know, it's a select few people that get to do that and I was really hopeful when we started the line last year that we would get to do this, and It has expanded exponentially and some of the things that we've got in the line, I use on a daily basis. They're unbelievably good quality, you know, I really wanted to make sure that it would be something I would use and it's just really exciting, so I think that's going to launch at the end of October.

AM: Congratulations on the continued success of your line with them and I’ve seen the cute kitchenware!

That's so exciting. Yay!

CHEF AS: Yeah!

AM: I just love that every time I see you on shows, you just have such a love and zest for food, and like you're talking about community and people coming together! What do you want your legacy, you know, to be in terms of the imprint that you've left on all of these different things that you're doing and whatever ends up being in the future - that may not be happening at this moment?

CHEF AS: Gosh. Well, I mean, the most important thing to me obviously is my family, right? And just for my girls to know that I did the best I could to balance these two parts of my life. But that they were always way more important than anything else, you know, for them and my husband to know that.

But outside of the home, I guess that I want people when they think of me to think of someone – who really valued coming around a table. Like, I really think that there are so many things that are coming in to distract us from connection with each other, you know, phones and social media. And I know there's been a lot of discussion and study recently on, you know, the impact of phones on kids.

AM: Yes.

CHEF AS: And teenagers. And what that does to the family and I really think that something as simple as sitting around the table and having dinner as many nights as possible is one of the most powerful things that we can do to combat that. Like so that would be probably part of my legacy. Then the other part is that, so often when I'm competing and doing things like that, I'm doing stuff that I feel completely out of my depths doing.

AM: I feel that.

CHEF AS: I'm, you know, like just recently I got booked for a bunch of things and it made me so scared. I was like crying in a fetal position.

AM: Oh no!

CHEF AS: It was bad because I was like, I cannot do this. I don't know how I'm gonna fail like. That has no matter how many times I do it, it just feels like it's something that I'm constantly fighting and I don't think I'm the only one.

AM: Nope!

CHEF AS: So I suppose part of my legacy, I hope these are very big words. It's just that, I was loud about feeling unequipped to do things, but doing them anyway!

AM: Which is huge! I tell people all the time, I’m always in my head, mulling over things and nervous before I do something. Even if it's like a million times, whatever, because everything is a little bit different and you just, I don't know, it's a thing, but I was like, if I feel that shaky about it, I have to kind of tell myself that you feel shaky because you want to do so well, and you care so much about what it represents for myself and what it is for the other people involved. So I try to turn it, although I'll still sit there and be like, I gotta run to the bathroom. This is crazy, but in the end, it does end up being lovely.

CHEF AS: Yeah, I think that there's the sense of like, if it isn't going easily, then you must be doing something wrong or you must be in the wrong place. Yeah, you must have made the wrong decision and I think that as I mean I'm 46 now. So hopefully it'll stick this year …

AM: It hasn’t yet, but it’s tough.

CHEF AS: Yeah, hopefully, but you know for the first time this year, I was like, after I had my little fetal position breakdown. I was like wait. Why don't I ever say to myself, “yes, I don't know how to do these things. I feel completely out of my depth. But the second half of that is, I'll figure it out.”

AM: Yeah.

CHEF AS: Yeah, figure it out. Just saying that has started to change things where I'm like, okay, you know, it may not go smoothly and it may not go off without a hitch.

AM: Right.

CHEF AS: But, I will figure it out. You know what I mean? It doesn’t have to go perfectly. I'll land something out of there. And that has felt very empowering actually. I think that just saying that to ourselves can be very edifying.

AM: 100% I like that. I will try to remember that the next freakout that happens.

CHEF AS: I will figure it out!

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PHOTOGRAPHY CREDITS | FRONT/BACK COVER, PG 16 - 22 Rowan Daly | PG 25, 26 + 38 Food Network |

Read the SEP ISSUE #105 of Athleisure Mag and see FAITH, FAMILY, FOOD | Chef Aarti Sequeira in mag.

MAKING HAIRSTORY | CHAZ DEAN

We always like sitting down with those that trailblaze their industries by working in their vertical and creating innovations that change the way that we go about doing what we do. We caught up with Chaz Dean, Founder of WEN and Celebrity Hair Stylist & Colorist, and have been fans of his since we first met him and followed his story on BRAVO's Flipping Out with Jeff Lewis, and when he went onto QVC to sell his line of haircare products. He creates products that you'll find using for your hair as well as other parts of your body! In addition, he is focused on clean ingredients that ensure our bodies stay hydrated and are not tested on animals.

We wanted to find out more about how he got into the industry, how being multi-talented in an array of areas allowed him to converge his skill sets even more to optimize his work, how he made his Chaz Dean Studio distinctive and his latest launch of WEN's Pina Colada line.

ATHLEISURE MAG: When did you realize that you wanted to be a hairstylist?

CHAZ DEAN: Probably when I was 18 because I took photography all through high school and I was a photographer all through that, loved it! We moved to Arizona the week after I graduated from high school. I was still 17 at that point and so I took a commercial course in photography and I thought, I was moving back to California, because Arizona was not for me! It was too hot – way too hot, which is what we’re getting now but anyway!

I knew I was moving back to California, but again, I was only an 18 year old kid. I felt like I was this little fish in this huge pond and I thought that I was going to be eaten alive out here. I wanted more experience under my belt and because I was a fashion/beauty photographer, I wanted to learn how to do the hair and the makeup to create the look that was in my head. I didn’t want to have to tell the MUA here’s what I see and the hair stylist, here's what I see - the vision that I saw, I wanted to be able to create that! That was really important to me so I went to school for hair and all through beauty school, everyone knew, this was the kid that was going to graduate and go back to California that’s his dream! I was going to work at Vidal Sassoon, that was my dream in school at least. I was going to go to Los Angeles to work at Vidal Sassoon. That was my dream in school. It was the full picture, not compartments.

AM: Exactly.

What led to you wanting to open your own salon and what were your goals in doing that?

CD: It’s funny, when we were in beauty school, one of our assignments was, if you had your own salon, what would it look like? We all had to draw it out like architects to show what it would look like and the layout. So, I remember that being our exercise, but I had no idea how I drew it out, now. It would be interesting to know how did I actually plan this as an 18 year old kid? How did I do it then versus how it really is now? I don’t remember, but it’s not like I sought out that I was going to own my own salon. Many people do and they can’t wait to open their own. Mine wasn’t that way. I worked for another company and I worked for them. I started creating products for them which is how it happened.

I was a 19 year old kid who asked them, “how come you have your own haircare line, but you don’t have your own deep conditioner?” They didn’t. They would buy those hypro pacs at the beauty supply. I didn’t think that it made sense to have your own product line, but not your own deep conditioner. So they said if I wanted, they would set me up with a laboratory to help them create one. I had never done it and again, I was only 19, but it opened a door for me. I like to cook, I’m creative, I love art and all of those things. So of course I wanted to do that. I did and we launched it and it was called Reconstructor and it was amazing and everyone loved it and it worked great. A few months later they came up to me and said, we’re thinking of doing more of a natural product line and they wanted to know if I would be interested. I said I was, but I wanted to know what I would get out of it. Their answer to me was, “prove to us that you can do it first and then we’ll talk about that.” A young intimidated kid from the owner’s salon thought, “well didn’t I already do that with the Reconstructor?”

But I wanted to do it and I probably was afraid that if I asked, that they might say ok forget it. So I wanted to do it and I’m glad that I did. We did it and we launched a Primrose Shampoo because they wanted more of a natural product line. At the time, the only one that was out was Aveda. I had to do my research to know what I would do and what I would want to do. So I did Primrose Shampoo, Sage Conditioner, and Rosemary Conditioner which were the first 3 products of the line. I’m someone that if my name is on it, it’s on it and you’re not going to run my name through the mud. So they were someone that wanted instant gratification and they kept saying let’s go, let’s go, let’s go. I would tell them that since my name was on it, if I was going to do it, I would do it right. It took longer than what they wanted it to be, but in hindsight, it was pretty quick. We finally did it and launched it and that was the line that it is and that’s the fashion formula line which is the Big Sexy Hair concept. So it’s that line. I developed those 3 items and it became huge! So after we launched it, I asked them, what am I going to get for this? So they told me to meet them in their office on Tues. So I went and their offices were in Westwood and they slid a piece of paper across the table to me and remember it probably took me 9 months to launch it so when I first did it, I was so excited and thought, oh my gosh, I’m going to create a product line for them and a young naïve 19 year old kid thinks that maybe I will get 15% out of it. You have no idea. As the months went on without having any dialogue with them and we do this as people, I went down to 12% and 10% in my own head just because I knew how they were. So in my own head, I talked my value down without any dialogue to them and I think I did it as well because I didn’t want to be let down with what it actually ended up being.

AM: Well, yeah.

CD: I’m not joking, I probably went down to 5-7% in my own head. So I went and met with them and remember I went from my own head thinking 15% down to 5%. So they slid the paper across the table to me, I turned it over and I kind of get a little emotional every time I say this. They offered me a penny per bottle for every bottle manufactured. I’m like woah! So I mean nothing – my worth is nothing!

AM: Oh my!

CD: In my head and I get goose bumps every time I say it because I don’t talk about it often, but in my head, I’m thinking I put in all that work and all that passion – yes I learned from it, but you’re a big Goliath here and that’s pretty messed up! In my head I’m thinking, that 100 bottles will equal $1! As a kid that has no money, how am I every going to get to $1,000? It was insane! I wasn’t happy about it and we had dialogue and they were like, that’s it – take it or leave it. Wow, it was a stab in the back and I had no choice and I signed it. But in all honesty, I never even saw that and I never even saw anything from that. I did get a discount from them when I purchased the salon from them which I am jumping ahead of them a little bit. Because you asked me about the salon and it’s really important.

Knowing I was screwed over when I first created a product for them, then I got screwed over a second time, also knowing that I worked for them as I was a manager and they didn’t pay their managers anything. I would ask them to just give me minimum wage to show that what I was doing for them carried merit, weight, value, respect, and what not. Because you had to have mandatory meetings and to cancel out your clients or book out your clients. I was like, I’m losing money as a manager and you’re not even covering me on anything here. I would ask for minimum wage and I’m sorry, back then it was $3.65 – so essentially, I’m asking for $120 a week to show me that I mean something to you. So no there was nothing. I did it as long as I could until I felt that my clientele was suffering because of my managerial and I was managing a salon of 25 stylists and so forth. So I said that I couldn’t do it anymore and that was after all the other things that I was screwed over on. I resigned from management and I left the salon that I was at which was in Century City and I went up to their Bel Air location. When I did, I realized that everyone that was working there were ex-managers. I was a 20 year old kid and I went to a salon that was all ex-managers. They all seemed to go there and it was in one of the richest neighborhoods in California. When I would go there, there would be no music there, no coffee made, there was no vibe, no energy and I couldn’t do it because I’m the full picture! So, I took on management again even though I didn’t get paid for it. I couldn’t be in that environment so I had to manage it. It’s funny because it bounced back between me and one of the other managers when I was like, I’m done with it, then she would do it. We both knew we weren’t getting paid for it, but we did it because we cared about the environment.

When it came up that we heard news that they might be selling the salon, we were like, “what are we going to do?” So I start looking around and you’re in Bel Air, it’s way up there around nothing. I looked and I couldn’t find a place as I knew I wouldn’t be able to control the environment. I would have to fit in to whatever it is and did I see myself in that type of an environment? At one point, they offered it to me on whether I would want to buy it, but my first knee jerk reacting in my head was, "how am I going to do this after you f-ed me over how many times?” Now you want me to do this so that you can do it again? But after thinking about it I realized that for years there was a reason why that salon wasn’t successful because every time one of the ex-managers would leave to go open their own salon, you’re losing that built in clientele they had. New stylists would come in, but you’re not getting new people walking into the door because you’re in Bel Air, a multi-million dollar neighborhood but it’s a chain salon Carlton above the door. These women have pride, they’re not going to a chain salon. I would tell them for years, change the name to anything but Carlton and you will have successful stylists. But they’re not walking in that door because of the name that’s over it. Even though it works for you everywhere else, it does not in this neighborhood. I said it for years and I have goosebumps as I tell you this and tell you my story as I don’t usually relive this. Their ego is in the way and they will not change the name. So I thought, I can make this work. So I did do it and that’s what turned everything around. I had never intended to own a salon, it was never in my cards, I was just a busy hard worker and I worked from 9 in the morning until 11/midnight because I was just passionate about hair. Marysol has been my housekeeper for 25 years and she jokes with me and says, “he used to work hard.” I’m like, what do you mean, I have no time to breathe! But it’s a different kind of work but I would be at the salon for 12 and 14 hour days so I “used to work hard.” It’s a different kind of work, now it’s a business kind of work. The irony is that I did it and I didn’t have any money. I had nothing. So I painted the walls and it was when shabby chic was in and I took my roses and hung them upside down and I made it quaint and cute and welcoming because I didn’t have any money to do anything else. I hated the floors and I couldn’t do anything about that. I did an opening party with friends and I had a friend that was a singer who had an incredible voice and she sang and I had people in the neighborhood and from the very beginning it was busy busy busy. They lived in the neighborhood and they would walk by and they were shocked. They would ask me how I did this and I told them that for years, all you had to do was change that name! I called it Chaz Dean. No one knew who Chaz Dean was back then, it was Chaz Dean Salon and they didn’t know who. I changed it to Chaz Dean Salon and now people know who the hell Chaz Dean is!

AM: Absolutely!

CD: I did call it my own name because I wanted to be able to incorporate my name because of my own photography. I wasn’t just building a salon, I was building photography and hair. I wanted them to be able to know who is Chaz Dean. Does that make sense?

AM: It does!

At what point did you feel like that you had been making these products for other people and now that you wanted to do it for yourself since you also had the salon?

CD: The day that I opened my salon!

AM: That’s what I thought!

CD: Because when I worked for them, you had to sell shampoo, you had to sell their products and it was all that you could do. That’s the ironic part. May 1st in 1993, the day I bought the salon and opened my salon, I gave up lather and said that I didn’t have to do that anymore to sell shampoo. I created it for them but I had already realized before that that I used to do shampoo and conditioner twice a day, 14 times a week. When I would shampoo my scalp, it would get tight and it felt horrible and it would be all stripped and I knew it. Then the conditioner would just comb through it and for 2 hours a day, it would look ok in the middle of the day, but then it would get oily and what not. It was a vicious cycle and I knew that there had to be a better way! I had a lightbulb moment that the only reason that anybody uses shampoo is to clean their hair. So if I can clean my hair and not strip it, so that my clients color won’t go down the drain, because I had been mixing vegetable color in with shampoos, that’s how I knew that the culprit was shampoo. So I’m emptying bottles of shampoo and mixing in vegetable color and putting them back in and I’m doing the same with conditioner – emptying them and putting back in vegetable color. But I know the culprit is shampoo, so get rid of the damn shampoo! That was before I bought the salon, but when I owned the salon, I no longer had to do this song and dance anymore. I can do my thing and that’s what it was.

The irony is, I never bought my shampoo from them. I bought the products that I created for them, but I never bought shampoo from them again. I would mix the sage and rosemary together – 2 parts sage, 1 part rosemary. Sage is more moisturizing and rosemary is more stringent so mixing 2/3 and 1/3, it worked. At the beginning, I told them about it because I was excited and they didn’t want to hear about it. About a year or so later, they realized that I never bought shampoo and I said, “why because I only do conditioner.” They thought that I was weird and crazy and then all of a sudden, they realized that I was on to something and then they came in asking about what I did and I knew! I knew that they were going to steal my idea because I was just this tiny little kid! My stylist next to me started telling me and I told her not to tell them. I knew what they were up to and they were going to rip me off.

AM: That’s awful!

CD: I did it and that was my moment when I started creating. It was still 2 years after that. So for 2 years, I mixed there’s and then in 1995, is when I started to work with the lab. When the lab came to me, I was concerned about them ripping me off so I didn’t even tell them what I was creating! With the lab, I would just pretend that I was creating a shampoo otherwise they were going to know what I was doing. So with the lab, they would send me the shampoo, various conditioners of different versions. I would keep making changes to the conditioners and they would note that I hadn’t with the shampoos and I would tell them that that one was good and I didn’t need any other changes. I didn’t tell them. It wasn’t until I launched it because my thinking was being someone much smaller than the larger companies around me, I had to protect it as long as I could and I kept the secret until it was launched. Even when I launched it, I still felt like I would have to keep it a secret. But by then I had to talk about it because it was out there and I had a patent pending. So I felt like it was guarded until I launched it.

AM: I love that story and it’s such a shame.There is such a backstory going on and you’re literally learning on a twisty curve and it’s awful when you’re the little guy!

CD: I probably wouldn’t have been around if it hadn’t happened that way. I didn’t do it out of spite or resentment. But I did it out of, if I did that for you, imagine what I could do for myself! That’s my thing. With the knowledge that I had back then versus what I had when I did it for myself, I knew I could do so much better than that.

AM: We had the pleasure of attending your virtual launch for the Pina Colada collection that took place last month. The system is great – what’s your process when you’re deciding about the scents that you’re bringing forward, what are the different kinds of products, and it’s great that there is that flexibility and such an intention behind what you do in these items that they can work for your skin as well as for your hair.

CD: I have very few products that only have 1 use. I’d have to think about which ones those would be. Most of them spill over for hair, skin, everything. As far as the fragrances, I have a Blessings Collection as well. Right now, we’re working on Prosperity. When we did the Pina Colada, we started out with wanting pineapple and coconut, but then as we went the process it became more than that! It literally became Pina Colada. Having pineapple and coconut made sense because of the benefits of the clarifying and the astringent properties, exfoliating properties, and hydrating properties. I knew where I wanted to go with it. This is one that I am so proud of! It’s been out since the beginning of June.

AM: When we got the WEN mailer, we were a little hesitant because some scents can be overwhelming and it’s just too much!

CD: Oh yeah, sometimes it’s like candy and too sweet!

AM: Yeah!

CD: Mine are not like that.

AM: When you’re using it feels like you’re at a spa and I really enjoy the balance of the scent.

CD: That is my element and as someone who suffers from migraines, the fragrances that I create are very clean. I avoid those nasty harsh synthetics and the musk because it drives my migraines and they know that about me too. So yeah, when you think of it and again, I smell other ones and I can’t because it goes right there! I keep it really clean and that’s what differentiates me so much because I have done over 50 fragrances and I will tell people not to wear fragrances because it drives my migraines, but the fact that I can create these and it doesn’t do that to me is so amazing. Again, I’m not making a claim, but anyone that does get migraines, or you have a fear of them, try it at least. I don’t remember anyone who has told me that it triggers their migraines.

AM: That’s good to know. What is the relationship when people are looking at having great hair – the balance between wellness and your haircare routine? Because it’s not just about what you put on your body, but also what you put in your body right?

CD: Oh yes! It’s really important. I try to get people to understand that everything that goes and I never use this analogy, but it’s the gas that you put in your car is going to determine that as well! Everything that you put into your body is going to come out as well. If you put in cheap gas you’re going to see that and it’s going to take its toll. But, the same thing with us. What goes in is going to have to come out somewhere. Your pores, your hair, your nails, your skin – somewhere. It has to come out, it doesn’t stay in there in a vault. So, yeah, when people realize that, you can change so much by your diet. What you do topically, you’ll notice it much quicker and immediately versus what you put in may take you a little longer to see what’s going on.

I definitely connect the two as I’m vegan and it’s been almost 4 years. I was pescatarian from Sept of 2014-2019 for 5 years and then I gave that up because I felt like I was probably eating more plastic than probably fish. Also, because they are living beings and there was all of that. I’ve been vegan now for almost 4 years. September will mark the 4th year. In terms of eating meat or any of that stuff, I haven’t in 9 years as of September. All of that is important to me. When I launched my product line, I did so with no animal testing. There are no animal biproducts, it’s cruelty-free, we are recognized by the leaping bunny and I did that again working on the line in 95, launching it in 2000 – so it’s not a bandwagon that I jumped onto. I have always been that way. Now, everyone is doing it being vegan and cruelty-free and I’m like, “where were you 20 years ago?” I launched that way. I don’t want to be swept away under the rug because everyone is now, I have been that way ever since I created my products. It’s important to me as well.

I think this is important, when I had my infomercial, I stipulated that I wouldn’t allow them to sell in China because they require animal testing. They knew that that was part of the contract and that I would not allow them to do that. They wanted to obviously, but it’s not ok.

AM: You’re schedule must be insane with your 2 salons in LA and here in NY, your QVC business with the brand as well as the brand on it’s own. What is an average week like for you? I love that you’re just smiling right now.

CD: No, it’s just that before you and I talked, I was talking with my business manager who was telling me that I had to do this, this, and this. I’ve been shooting for the past 2 days and almost everything was that. I know there are things that I need to do because they are important. It’s not a joke, my LA PR team, we were supposed to have a call a few days ago and then the shoot happened and she was like, we still need to talk and I was like, "I know, but when?” It just is and it’s not a complaint. It doesn’t stop.

We did a documentary. A guy reached out to me during COVID and he wanted to do it about our billboards. During COVID, I hadn’t done photoshoots for it. So a year and a half into it, I reached out and apologized that I hadn’t done anything for it. When we finally did it last July, it was a long time that he was waiting for us to do shoots. He came out and did the footage and what not, filmed it, asked me questions and did the interview and all of that. Just yesterday during our shoot, we happened to talk about it and our billboards for next year for Fall, Winter, Spring and Summer and what that will look like and what we want to do. We try to shoot the whole year. So we’re going to do our shoot and do a behind the scenes with our video guy where we’ll talk about what we’re doing, who we are, what it means, etc. The billboards have been out for at least 15 years and I need to figure out when the first ones went up because I really don’t remember honestly. Having said that, we talked about it and they said we haven’t heard from him and it’s been almost a year ago now. So we’re talking about what we’re going to do with behind the scenes and interactions with everyone involved with my team. I have the first sample of it today and in there it reminded me because he asked me this as well – and I said that there is something in me that’s afraid that if I took a vacation or time off, if I took a pause or a stop to it, I might not pick it back up again because I know what it entails. I always say that I feel like I am on this merry-go-round and if I get off, I don’t know if I am getting back on. So I’m afraid to put a pin or a pause in it. You’d think that that was what happened during COVID, but I got busier with Zooms and this. For people that got those breaks and what not, I didn’t!

AM: We had no break!

CD: I thought that I would and I’d have time to clean out my closet, my garage, etc. None of that happened! I didn’t get free time which is insane. Things got busier because people knew that Chaz was available. When I was behind the chair before, they would have to stand there and wait for me because they couldn’t get to me. As soon as COVID happened, everyone could get to me and it happened. Now I’m on these Zoom things in the salon here on Saturdays because the rest is taken up with all of this. In NY, I’m in the salon 5 days a week which is what I was used to during normalcy because I’m able to there as I’m out of this if that makes sense.

There’s no 2 days that are the same. I’m juggling. Today I’m trying to fit together meetings in – where are we going to fit it? Ask this one if they can stay 15 mins later, we’ll meet with this one after – it is what it is. Even during COVID, when I look at my life pre-COVID, even today, I don’t know how I did it. We were traveling every month to QVC sometimes twice a month. A team of 20+ going there. I look at it now and wonder how did we do that during 2019? I don’t know how and I know we did it for 16 years at that time. But I look at it and wonder how I lived that life before COVID and I don't know how and I don't even know how to get back to that! I don’t think that we ever will. So when you asked me that question, I lived it. How did we do all that we did? I don’t know.

Ever since COVID, the team that used to go doesn’t want to do that anymore. Everything changed.

AM: Everything changed! That’s very true!

What do you want your legacy to be in this industry?

CD: It’s so funny that you ask that. If you say Vidal Sassoon, Oribe, or what not – you know who or what they are. I want it to be that this guy changed the way that globally people thought about the way they cleanse their hair. I don’t feel like I have hit that yet and I don’t know why or what it will take to hit that. There was no such thing as cleansing conditioner when I did it. People thought that I was insane and crazy and said, “what do you mean that I’m not going to be able to use shampoo?” I’d tell them to trust me and that I promised that it would work. You do a week, 2 weeks, then 3 weeks. I’m on day 2, but still I’m 30 years that I haven’t had lather touch my hair, face, body, or skin. I would not have all this hair on my head if I continued to use shampoo. I’d probably have half this amount and I’m not joking because of the toll it takes on your scalp and your hair. So I’d really like to leave behind the recognition – I really would, that he really had a movement that changed things. It’s the same version of the person who created shampoo, I’m the guy who invented cleaning conditioner. I don’t think that it’s hit because everyone has copied it and it’s not the same. There are people who say they use cleansing conditioners and I ask them if it’s Wen and they say, “no, but it’s all the same.” And I say no – I had that message 30+ years ago and there are people on the bandwagon, but it was delivered to me. I didn’t understand what it was when I opened a salon, I didn’t plan on it. I stepped into that role of giving up lather, I didn’t know what it would mean, but I knew I was on a journey. So I would like it if I was known as that guy who gave up lather and created cleansing conditioner. It has been worldwide.

We did an event last night and sometimes people don’t realize it’s they me until we have the gift bags and they’ll say, oh my God, Wen – that’s you! So they connect it that way – you get what I mean! They’re like, your Flipping Out Guy or QVC guy. There are times that people don’t realize and they will tell me that they love Wen and that they love Chaz and then they’ll realize it’s me! It’s bizarre, it happens, and it’s crazy.

I know how hard I have worked for it and I would like it to be when it’s all said and done that there is a legacy behind it. I was passionate about it and I did it for her, him, the customer. Anyone that knows me, if I go anywhere, like last night, it was an event for pre Comic-Con and I was giving advice. There was a woman who was there who had all hair pieces and what not and her testimonial was amazing. She had been using it for 15 years or more and whatever industry her hair extensions come from, they all use it because it prolongs them. When you use shampoo on them, you’re buying another one, and another one, and another one – they’re getting trashed. So to hear her testimonial was amaz ing. How did I change her life, help her life, build her confidence? There are people who have been born and have never used lather in their lives since this has been out for 22 years. I have a goddaughter who is 23 and lather has never touched her hair – things like that, they have never had to experience shampoo because Wen was there. I’d like to have the weight of what it actually means and not just the story of the cleansing conditioner but how it touched people’s lives, built their confidence and all of those elements are why I do what I do. It’s a confidence booster!

IG @chazdean

PHOTOGRAPHY COURTESY | Chaz Dean

Read the JUL ISSUE #91 of Athleisure Mag and see MAKING HAIRSTORY | Chaz Dean in mag.