AM: Oh my!
CD: In my head and I get goose bumps every time I say it because I don’t talk about it often, but in my head, I’m thinking I put in all that work and all that passion – yes I learned from it, but you’re a big Goliath here and that’s pretty messed up! In my head I’m thinking, that 100 bottles will equal $1! As a kid that has no money, how am I every going to get to $1,000? It was insane! I wasn’t happy about it and we had dialogue and they were like, that’s it – take it or leave it. Wow, it was a stab in the back and I had no choice and I signed it. But in all honesty, I never even saw that and I never even saw anything from that. I did get a discount from them when I purchased the salon from them which I am jumping ahead of them a little bit. Because you asked me about the salon and it’s really important.
Knowing I was screwed over when I first created a product for them, then I got screwed over a second time, also knowing that I worked for them as I was a manager and they didn’t pay their managers anything. I would ask them to just give me minimum wage to show that what I was doing for them carried merit, weight, value, respect, and what not. Because you had to have mandatory meetings and to cancel out your clients or book out your clients. I was like, I’m losing money as a manager and you’re not even covering me on anything here. I would ask for minimum wage and I’m sorry, back then it was $3.65 – so essentially, I’m asking for $120 a week to show me that I mean something to you. So no there was nothing. I did it as long as I could until I felt that my clientele was suffering because of my managerial and I was managing a salon of 25 stylists and so forth. So I said that I couldn’t do it anymore and that was after all the other things that I was screwed over on. I resigned from management and I left the salon that I was at which was in Century City and I went up to their Bel Air location. When I did, I realized that everyone that was working there were ex-managers. I was a 20 year old kid and I went to a salon that was all ex-managers. They all seemed to go there and it was in one of the richest neighborhoods in California. When I would go there, there would be no music there, no coffee made, there was no vibe, no energy and I couldn’t do it because I’m the full picture! So, I took on management again even though I didn’t get paid for it. I couldn’t be in that environment so I had to manage it. It’s funny because it bounced back between me and one of the other managers when I was like, I’m done with it, then she would do it. We both knew we weren’t getting paid for it, but we did it because we cared about the environment.
When it came up that we heard news that they might be selling the salon, we were like, “what are we going to do?” So I start looking around and you’re in Bel Air, it’s way up there around nothing. I looked and I couldn’t find a place as I knew I wouldn’t be able to control the environment. I would have to fit in to whatever it is and did I see myself in that type of an environment? At one point, they offered it to me on whether I would want to buy it, but my first knee jerk reacting in my head was, "how am I going to do this after you f-ed me over how many times?” Now you want me to do this so that you can do it again? But after thinking about it I realized that for years there was a reason why that salon wasn’t successful because every time one of the ex-managers would leave to go open their own salon, you’re losing that built in clientele they had. New stylists would come in, but you’re not getting new people walking into the door because you’re in Bel Air, a multi-million dollar neighborhood but it’s a chain salon Carlton above the door. These women have pride, they’re not going to a chain salon. I would tell them for years, change the name to anything but Carlton and you will have successful stylists. But they’re not walking in that door because of the name that’s over it. Even though it works for you everywhere else, it does not in this neighborhood. I said it for years and I have goosebumps as I tell you this and tell you my story as I don’t usually relive this. Their ego is in the way and they will not change the name. So I thought, I can make this work. So I did do it and that’s what turned everything around. I had never intended to own a salon, it was never in my cards, I was just a busy hard worker and I worked from 9 in the morning until 11/midnight because I was just passionate about hair. Marysol has been my housekeeper for 25 years and she jokes with me and says, “he used to work hard.” I’m like, what do you mean, I have no time to breathe! But it’s a different kind of work but I would be at the salon for 12 and 14 hour days so I “used to work hard.” It’s a different kind of work, now it’s a business kind of work. The irony is that I did it and I didn’t have any money. I had nothing. So I painted the walls and it was when shabby chic was in and I took my roses and hung them upside down and I made it quaint and cute and welcoming because I didn’t have any money to do anything else. I hated the floors and I couldn’t do anything about that. I did an opening party with friends and I had a friend that was a singer who had an incredible voice and she sang and I had people in the neighborhood and from the very beginning it was busy busy busy. They lived in the neighborhood and they would walk by and they were shocked. They would ask me how I did this and I told them that for years, all you had to do was change that name! I called it Chaz Dean. No one knew who Chaz Dean was back then, it was Chaz Dean Salon and they didn’t know who. I changed it to Chaz Dean Salon and now people know who the hell Chaz Dean is!
AM: Absolutely!
CD: I did call it my own name because I wanted to be able to incorporate my name because of my own photography. I wasn’t just building a salon, I was building photography and hair. I wanted them to be able to know who is Chaz Dean. Does that make sense?
AM: It does!
At what point did you feel like that you had been making these products for other people and now that you wanted to do it for yourself since you also had the salon?
CD: The day that I opened my salon!
AM: That’s what I thought!
CD: Because when I worked for them, you had to sell shampoo, you had to sell their products and it was all that you could do. That’s the ironic part. May 1st in 1993, the day I bought the salon and opened my salon, I gave up lather and said that I didn’t have to do that anymore to sell shampoo. I created it for them but I had already realized before that that I used to do shampoo and conditioner twice a day, 14 times a week. When I would shampoo my scalp, it would get tight and it felt horrible and it would be all stripped and I knew it. Then the conditioner would just comb through it and for 2 hours a day, it would look ok in the middle of the day, but then it would get oily and what not. It was a vicious cycle and I knew that there had to be a better way! I had a lightbulb moment that the only reason that anybody uses shampoo is to clean their hair. So if I can clean my hair and not strip it, so that my clients color won’t go down the drain, because I had been mixing vegetable color in with shampoos, that’s how I knew that the culprit was shampoo. So I’m emptying bottles of shampoo and mixing in vegetable color and putting them back in and I’m doing the same with conditioner – emptying them and putting back in vegetable color. But I know the culprit is shampoo, so get rid of the damn shampoo! That was before I bought the salon, but when I owned the salon, I no longer had to do this song and dance anymore. I can do my thing and that’s what it was.
The irony is, I never bought my shampoo from them. I bought the products that I created for them, but I never bought shampoo from them again. I would mix the sage and rosemary together – 2 parts sage, 1 part rosemary. Sage is more moisturizing and rosemary is more stringent so mixing 2/3 and 1/3, it worked. At the beginning, I told them about it because I was excited and they didn’t want to hear about it. About a year or so later, they realized that I never bought shampoo and I said, “why because I only do conditioner.” They thought that I was weird and crazy and then all of a sudden, they realized that I was on to something and then they came in asking about what I did and I knew! I knew that they were going to steal my idea because I was just this tiny little kid! My stylist next to me started telling me and I told her not to tell them. I knew what they were up to and they were going to rip me off.
AM: That’s awful!
CD: I did it and that was my moment when I started creating. It was still 2 years after that. So for 2 years, I mixed there’s and then in 1995, is when I started to work with the lab. When the lab came to me, I was concerned about them ripping me off so I didn’t even tell them what I was creating! With the lab, I would just pretend that I was creating a shampoo otherwise they were going to know what I was doing. So with the lab, they would send me the shampoo, various conditioners of different versions. I would keep making changes to the conditioners and they would note that I hadn’t with the shampoos and I would tell them that that one was good and I didn’t need any other changes. I didn’t tell them. It wasn’t until I launched it because my thinking was being someone much smaller than the larger companies around me, I had to protect it as long as I could and I kept the secret until it was launched. Even when I launched it, I still felt like I would have to keep it a secret. But by then I had to talk about it because it was out there and I had a patent pending. So I felt like it was guarded until I launched it.
AM: I love that story and it’s such a shame.There is such a backstory going on and you’re literally learning on a twisty curve and it’s awful when you’re the little guy!
CD: I probably wouldn’t have been around if it hadn’t happened that way. I didn’t do it out of spite or resentment. But I did it out of, if I did that for you, imagine what I could do for myself! That’s my thing. With the knowledge that I had back then versus what I had when I did it for myself, I knew I could do so much better than that.
AM: We had the pleasure of attending your virtual launch for the Pina Colada collection that took place last month. The system is great – what’s your process when you’re deciding about the scents that you’re bringing forward, what are the different kinds of products, and it’s great that there is that flexibility and such an intention behind what you do in these items that they can work for your skin as well as for your hair.
CD: I have very few products that only have 1 use. I’d have to think about which ones those would be. Most of them spill over for hair, skin, everything. As far as the fragrances, I have a Blessings Collection as well. Right now, we’re working on Prosperity. When we did the Pina Colada, we started out with wanting pineapple and coconut, but then as we went the process it became more than that! It literally became Pina Colada. Having pineapple and coconut made sense because of the benefits of the clarifying and the astringent properties, exfoliating properties, and hydrating properties. I knew where I wanted to go with it. This is one that I am so proud of! It’s been out since the beginning of June.
AM: When we got the WEN mailer, we were a little hesitant because some scents can be overwhelming and it’s just too much!
CD: Oh yeah, sometimes it’s like candy and too sweet!
AM: Yeah!
CD: Mine are not like that.
AM: When you’re using it feels like you’re at a spa and I really enjoy the balance of the scent.
CD: That is my element and as someone who suffers from migraines, the fragrances that I create are very clean. I avoid those nasty harsh synthetics and the musk because it drives my migraines and they know that about me too. So yeah, when you think of it and again, I smell other ones and I can’t because it goes right there! I keep it really clean and that’s what differentiates me so much because I have done over 50 fragrances and I will tell people not to wear fragrances because it drives my migraines, but the fact that I can create these and it doesn’t do that to me is so amazing. Again, I’m not making a claim, but anyone that does get migraines, or you have a fear of them, try it at least. I don’t remember anyone who has told me that it triggers their migraines.
AM: That’s good to know. What is the relationship when people are looking at having great hair – the balance between wellness and your haircare routine? Because it’s not just about what you put on your body, but also what you put in your body right?
CD: Oh yes! It’s really important. I try to get people to understand that everything that goes and I never use this analogy, but it’s the gas that you put in your car is going to determine that as well! Everything that you put into your body is going to come out as well. If you put in cheap gas you’re going to see that and it’s going to take its toll. But, the same thing with us. What goes in is going to have to come out somewhere. Your pores, your hair, your nails, your skin – somewhere. It has to come out, it doesn’t stay in there in a vault. So, yeah, when people realize that, you can change so much by your diet. What you do topically, you’ll notice it much quicker and immediately versus what you put in may take you a little longer to see what’s going on.
I definitely connect the two as I’m vegan and it’s been almost 4 years. I was pescatarian from Sept of 2014-2019 for 5 years and then I gave that up because I felt like I was probably eating more plastic than probably fish. Also, because they are living beings and there was all of that. I’ve been vegan now for almost 4 years. September will mark the 4th year. In terms of eating meat or any of that stuff, I haven’t in 9 years as of September. All of that is important to me. When I launched my product line, I did so with no animal testing. There are no animal biproducts, it’s cruelty-free, we are recognized by the leaping bunny and I did that again working on the line in 95, launching it in 2000 – so it’s not a bandwagon that I jumped onto. I have always been that way. Now, everyone is doing it being vegan and cruelty-free and I’m like, “where were you 20 years ago?” I launched that way. I don’t want to be swept away under the rug because everyone is now, I have been that way ever since I created my products. It’s important to me as well.
I think this is important, when I had my infomercial, I stipulated that I wouldn’t allow them to sell in China because they require animal testing. They knew that that was part of the contract and that I would not allow them to do that. They wanted to obviously, but it’s not ok.
AM: You’re schedule must be insane with your 2 salons in LA and here in NY, your QVC business with the brand as well as the brand on it’s own. What is an average week like for you? I love that you’re just smiling right now.
CD: No, it’s just that before you and I talked, I was talking with my business manager who was telling me that I had to do this, this, and this. I’ve been shooting for the past 2 days and almost everything was that. I know there are things that I need to do because they are important. It’s not a joke, my LA PR team, we were supposed to have a call a few days ago and then the shoot happened and she was like, we still need to talk and I was like, "I know, but when?” It just is and it’s not a complaint. It doesn’t stop.
We did a documentary. A guy reached out to me during COVID and he wanted to do it about our billboards. During COVID, I hadn’t done photoshoots for it. So a year and a half into it, I reached out and apologized that I hadn’t done anything for it. When we finally did it last July, it was a long time that he was waiting for us to do shoots. He came out and did the footage and what not, filmed it, asked me questions and did the interview and all of that. Just yesterday during our shoot, we happened to talk about it and our billboards for next year for Fall, Winter, Spring and Summer and what that will look like and what we want to do. We try to shoot the whole year. So we’re going to do our shoot and do a behind the scenes with our video guy where we’ll talk about what we’re doing, who we are, what it means, etc. The billboards have been out for at least 15 years and I need to figure out when the first ones went up because I really don’t remember honestly. Having said that, we talked about it and they said we haven’t heard from him and it’s been almost a year ago now. So we’re talking about what we’re going to do with behind the scenes and interactions with everyone involved with my team. I have the first sample of it today and in there it reminded me because he asked me this as well – and I said that there is something in me that’s afraid that if I took a vacation or time off, if I took a pause or a stop to it, I might not pick it back up again because I know what it entails. I always say that I feel like I am on this merry-go-round and if I get off, I don’t know if I am getting back on. So I’m afraid to put a pin or a pause in it. You’d think that that was what happened during COVID, but I got busier with Zooms and this. For people that got those breaks and what not, I didn’t!
AM: We had no break!
CD: I thought that I would and I’d have time to clean out my closet, my garage, etc. None of that happened! I didn’t get free time which is insane. Things got busier because people knew that Chaz was available. When I was behind the chair before, they would have to stand there and wait for me because they couldn’t get to me. As soon as COVID happened, everyone could get to me and it happened. Now I’m on these Zoom things in the salon here on Saturdays because the rest is taken up with all of this. In NY, I’m in the salon 5 days a week which is what I was used to during normalcy because I’m able to there as I’m out of this if that makes sense.
There’s no 2 days that are the same. I’m juggling. Today I’m trying to fit together meetings in – where are we going to fit it? Ask this one if they can stay 15 mins later, we’ll meet with this one after – it is what it is. Even during COVID, when I look at my life pre-COVID, even today, I don’t know how I did it. We were traveling every month to QVC sometimes twice a month. A team of 20+ going there. I look at it now and wonder how did we do that during 2019? I don’t know how and I know we did it for 16 years at that time. But I look at it and wonder how I lived that life before COVID and I don't know how and I don't even know how to get back to that! I don’t think that we ever will. So when you asked me that question, I lived it. How did we do all that we did? I don’t know.
Ever since COVID, the team that used to go doesn’t want to do that anymore. Everything changed.
AM: Everything changed! That’s very true!
What do you want your legacy to be in this industry?
CD: It’s so funny that you ask that. If you say Vidal Sassoon, Oribe, or what not – you know who or what they are. I want it to be that this guy changed the way that globally people thought about the way they cleanse their hair. I don’t feel like I have hit that yet and I don’t know why or what it will take to hit that. There was no such thing as cleansing conditioner when I did it. People thought that I was insane and crazy and said, “what do you mean that I’m not going to be able to use shampoo?” I’d tell them to trust me and that I promised that it would work. You do a week, 2 weeks, then 3 weeks. I’m on day 2, but still I’m 30 years that I haven’t had lather touch my hair, face, body, or skin. I would not have all this hair on my head if I continued to use shampoo. I’d probably have half this amount and I’m not joking because of the toll it takes on your scalp and your hair. So I’d really like to leave behind the recognition – I really would, that he really had a movement that changed things. It’s the same version of the person who created shampoo, I’m the guy who invented cleaning conditioner. I don’t think that it’s hit because everyone has copied it and it’s not the same. There are people who say they use cleansing conditioners and I ask them if it’s Wen and they say, “no, but it’s all the same.” And I say no – I had that message 30+ years ago and there are people on the bandwagon, but it was delivered to me. I didn’t understand what it was when I opened a salon, I didn’t plan on it. I stepped into that role of giving up lather, I didn’t know what it would mean, but I knew I was on a journey. So I would like it if I was known as that guy who gave up lather and created cleansing conditioner. It has been worldwide.
We did an event last night and sometimes people don’t realize it’s they me until we have the gift bags and they’ll say, oh my God, Wen – that’s you! So they connect it that way – you get what I mean! They’re like, your Flipping Out Guy or QVC guy. There are times that people don’t realize and they will tell me that they love Wen and that they love Chaz and then they’ll realize it’s me! It’s bizarre, it happens, and it’s crazy.
I know how hard I have worked for it and I would like it to be when it’s all said and done that there is a legacy behind it. I was passionate about it and I did it for her, him, the customer. Anyone that knows me, if I go anywhere, like last night, it was an event for pre Comic-Con and I was giving advice. There was a woman who was there who had all hair pieces and what not and her testimonial was amazing. She had been using it for 15 years or more and whatever industry her hair extensions come from, they all use it because it prolongs them. When you use shampoo on them, you’re buying another one, and another one, and another one – they’re getting trashed. So to hear her testimonial was amaz ing. How did I change her life, help her life, build her confidence? There are people who have been born and have never used lather in their lives since this has been out for 22 years. I have a goddaughter who is 23 and lather has never touched her hair – things like that, they have never had to experience shampoo because Wen was there. I’d like to have the weight of what it actually means and not just the story of the cleansing conditioner but how it touched people’s lives, built their confidence and all of those elements are why I do what I do. It’s a confidence booster!
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PHOTOGRAPHY COURTESY | Chaz Dean
Read the JUL ISSUE #91 of Athleisure Mag and see MAKING HAIRSTORY | Chaz Dean in mag.
