AM: You were talking about Morocco earlier and I saw it on your IG and I remember when you were doing it that I thought it was so amazing. You’re known for storytelling through food. Why did you want to go to Morocco and what was that like for you?
CHEF NA: Oh my gosh! Well first of all, I just wanted to be able to get to the continent of Africa and that was my first taste at it and I can’t wait to get back! I want to travel to Ghana and Nigeria next.
I just have had some amazing opportunities to storytell through food. It started the first year in Belize and that was in 2019 and then I did Morocco, I did Bali and I did Hong Kong.
I think for me, it was an opportunity to connect. I traveled with 12 people and basically, led them on a culinary journey where I took them through the markets! Oh my God, the most beautiful thing is that we traveled through Marrakesh, Fez and the Ourika Valley and I was collecting ingredients along the way and then we cooked an amazing huge dinner. I think that for me, to have perspective on other places from where I was born, I think it really just adds to my repertoire. I have a very unique perspective on cooking because I don’t want to just know one style. I learned French fine dining because I feel that the technique – right, which is different from the ingredients and the cultural influence is the mother of cooking right? How to braise, how to make a sauce, how to chiffonade, how to cut a brunoise – all those things are applicable to the ingredients or the terroir of where I am. So if I can go to a new place in the world and learn about a particular thread of saffron or a way to cook couscous which is such an art to learn those things. Like, bread making first hand from the matriarchs – I get to weave that through my tapestry which becomes a personal approach to cooking, right? I did it in my TED talk, I believe that we as human beings are simply the bridge and gateway from the past to the future. So, it is something that I wear with a badge of honor, so that’s really why I try to travel as much as possible and I’ll actually be doing another pop-up in Q2 of 2023 in Hong Kong.
AM: Oh wow!
CHEF NA: I know! People are so excited! They don’t want me to cook food and give them my take on Chinese food, they want to feel who am I on a plate. That’s what I feel what my super power is – to storytell through my food.
AM: You participated in Kwame Onwuachi’s The Family Reunion at the inaugural launch in 2021. You moderated Stories From the Matriarchs: Then vs. Now which included Virginia Ali of the iconic Ben’s Chili Bowl, Chef Tiffany Derry and Chef Mashama Bailey as panelists. The Family Reunion was held at the beautiful Salamander Resort & Spa which we’d love to check out later this year. Can you tell me a bit about this multi-day event and why did you want to do it?
CHEF NA: Well, I’ll see you there! He reached out. Kwame’s a long time friend and colleague and we came up together. When he asked me to do one of the closing ceremonies which was to pay respects to the founder of Ben’s Chili Bowl.
AM: Which is insane!
CHEF NA: I mean, I was like, what? I moderated this panel which focused on matriarchs past, present and future. It was just a vibe. I don’t even know how to articulate it – it was truly a vibe. I did that the first year and then the second year, I cooked and I’m not trying to talk big headed, but people said it was probably the dish of the whole event and it was so bomb! It was braised short rib but I had this Afro-Korean influence with it and this sweet potato grits. People lost their shit and you know, you make dishes and you’re like this hits, this is great, but this was one of those dishes where I was like, “dang, I put my whole foot in this dish.” Seriously, for weeks, people were hitting me up on IG and even at the event saying dang! It was just one of those things. That’s that love transfer from conception to the menu articulation to people making the dish. You have to inspire constantly, and you have to inspire to be inspired truly. It’s a full circle of like!
The Family Reunion, I’m always grateful to be invited to it and every time I leave that event, I just feel that my cup is full.
AM: It looks amazing!
CHEF NA: It is a vibe. I don’t even know what else to say! From the playlist that’s playing throughout the Salamander to the conversations. We’re all out here pushing and then you get this moment to kind of stop and connect. You can share ideas, it’s really cool.
AM: So will you be at this year’s?
CHEF NA: I will!
AM: Amazing! I was talking to my Co-Founder who is also my boyfriend and we happened to catch Kwame at StarChefs International Chefs Congress back in 2019 and talk about rice and the impact of the diaspora as it went from West Africa to the US and I was like, we definitely need to check out The Family Reunion, see the resort and be able to hang with you as well as other chefs and to enjoy the culinary experience!
CHEF NA: Love it!
AM: You’re also going to be at the Mohegan Sun the last weekend of Jan for the Sun Wine and Food Fest. Why did you want to be at this food festival, what is happening and what will you be doing there?
CHEF NA: So, I’ll start with my dish. I’m going to be doing a Toasted Rise Porridge with a Chicken Ai-Soon Meatball which is my grandmother’s name on my mom’s side. It has this crispy garlic and scallions. I’ve been playing with this idea of Afro-Korean cuisine and this is kind of a dish that will reflect that. I chose this because it is an opportunity for me to connect with my peers, to connect with a part of the states that I don’t really get access to. I like to do these events, because I don’t necessarily have a restaurant where people can come patron so it’s important for me to take my food out on the road and to be on tour if you will! So, I do a lot of private events in LA, but this is my way to do public dinners. It’s kind of amazing and hits all the touchpoints for me because I get to connect with my colleagues and then I get to share the message of food. I’ll be able to do the dine around where people will get to meet all of the chefs and then also I'll get to demo a dish.
The demos are my favorite part. For me, I get to demystify cooking because I am up there and I am showing it. Anyone can find a recipe, but if I am showing you how to do it, it makes people feel more empowered and maybe they can make the recipe at home. So this year, it may sound simple, but these are the kinds of things that people should know how to make to really up their game. A freaking salad dressing! Last year, I showed people how to make ramen noodles. I like showing people about things that they generally go out and buy so this year, I’m going to show people how to make a signature thing that I make which is called a Shatter Batter. This batter stays crispy for forever and really it’s a game to see how you can capture the most amount of bubbles in the batter as possible. So I show people the techniques, but also the science behind it. When to fold in your egg whites, when to use baking powder, baking soda and what do these do scientifically? Once you have those elements of chemistry, people can take that and apply it to their cooking. I’m basically going to show people how to make this Shatter Batter, I’m going to be deep frying things and generally, everyone has these ingredients at home. I’ll be demoing that and then doing the dine around event with the Chicken Meatball and it should be a fun time!
AM: I love that you’re always doing different types of events that show different types of facets. I know that you have the one that’s coming up with the St Louis Community College – Falling in Love ... In the 5 Courses Gala at the Four Seasons and the fact that students who are culinary artists will be able to get to work with you as well, it’s really cool to see how you’re always giving of yourself and doing things in a different way. Why did you want to be included in that event?
CHEF NA: Oh my God, I love it – you know all of the things!
AM: I love you as a person, but I also think it's important that when a person has a signature and they have a throughline, I love seeing how true it is – which yours obviously is. But you’re always doing different things and infusing mentorship through food and you’re raising people up that are making their way and I think that’s cool that you do that consistently.
CHEF NA: I agree because it feeds my soul as much as I hope that it feeds theirs. This one, I’m really excited about it because I didn’t have the bandwidth in my schedule to do it last year. This year, having time to circle back around, it’s going to be exciting because I was talking with the chefs and these culinary students, I always have to say that the first day that I sat in culinary school, I knew that I never wanted to do anything else. I was going to see it through to the end and now to have the opportunity to give back to these young minds and nurture - is a part of me in creating that legacy in our field. It’s a vertical – it’s either going to grow or not and it takes tilling the land to make it grow and be fruitful and this is my way of doing that! It’s also really cool because I came up literally in the best kitchens that you could work in in the world. To be able to wear that hat for a day without having to tend to it every single day if I had a fine dining restaurant, selfishly, it’s kind of a way for me to be able to wear that hat for a minute. It’s what I’m good at. I really love that part of it. 5 courses for 500 people is no small feat. The amount of pre-production that goes into such an amazing gala like that is very challenging. It’s very rewarding and I don’t ever want to be like, “oh, I’m a celebrity chef and I’m too big to do the things.” I’m a worker first and foremost and that’s how I got to where I am today. To be able to do that, I want to make sure that I am actually doing the things.
AM: Looping back to Next Level Chef and looking at the first season, when I interviewed you last time, you weren’t able to tell me all the things, but after watching the first season I was so hooked. I loved the fact that you had these different levels that had these different resources. You don’t always get to be at the tip top and you have to do a lot with less and still make it look amazing. Being able to figure things out individually as well as being able to do so as a team – what did you walk away from as someone who was a mentor, having a person who won from your team and working alongside Gordon and Richard?
CHEF NA: That’s a great question! Truly, I don’t think that I could be more grateful to be on this type of program because ultimately, I’m a blip on these chefs life radar. Yes, it’s cool that I’m on a show blah blah blah, but it’s not about me, it’s about them! For me, not being that far from cooking competitions myself, I can completely relate to how they feel. To be tasked with putting a dish together in 45 minutes, you haven’t seen all the ingredients, you don’t know what level you will be on – it’s a gauntlet. You really start to see after the 3rd cook that they may have had the opportunity to be on all 3 levels. So they’ve kind of had the opportunity to take inventory and they can strategize and game plan. But it’s really hard! To be able to be a voice of reason sometimes, I get it. Once that light turns green, you’re like go and your mind is on a bullet train to be like, “ok, I need to grab all of these different ingredients, not freaking cut myself, but I’m also on TV so maybe I should smile!” It’s a lot and I get it! I feel like I’m that ghost teammate. Yes, I’m their mentor, but I’m part of their brand and part of their hands. I don’t feel like there is this hierarchy where I’m on top of you, I’m with you! Just to be able to be that voice of reason for those chefs – that may need less salt or that needs a pop of acid and then they win, those are the most rewarding moments. You can see the gratitude that they have for the entire journey, win or lose. Pyet DeSpain took it home last year and she put the work in, but it’s like – a lot of the magic actually happens outside of the program because these chefs get 4 months of mentorship between myself, Richard and Gordon outside of the show plus that $250,000 to seed their dreams. I mean, you have got to really freaking hand it to Gordon. In 2006, I remember working in this 2-star Michelin restaurant and feeling like dang, I was just 5 years into the game and for me, I was like, I want to work in harvest kitchens and that’s what I did. So I was like, ok and the more that I started to peel back the layers, I was like, “dang, I don’t know anything."
But what I did know was that I had work ethic and I was ready to take it on. But, I knew I needed to look at who was killing it and it was Gordon. He had the most Michelin stars, he was killing it in media to the point of watering the soil. To have a show like this where I get to dedicate this year's and years of ups and downs and the journey lived to these young minds, there is no other show like it. Yes, there is this competitive component but it’s rewarding for the mentors also.
To be able to work next to him every day, I can’t even tell you girl. I go to bed excited and I’m excited to wake up! No moment am I like, “Oh my God it’s hard waking up at 4am in the morning every day.” I go and I wake up, I go to the gym and I sit in the makeup chair for 2 hours and I’m ready to crush it every single freaking day. I love it! I would say that it is the most professional set that I have ever been on and it’s the most inspiring because he leads his sets like you’re in a kitchen. To be on a set led by a chef’s mind, is different then being on a set led by a production person. He has a production mind, so it’s like for me, it’s the best of both worlds. I’ve had the opportunity to do a good amount of TV by now, but most of my life lived has been in kitchens. So, I feel like I’m grateful because I’m in the best place for me.
AM: What was your favorite challenge from season 1?
CHEF NA: Ooo my favorite challenge from season 1 was the cultural mash-up challenge. The chefs were tasked to take two
different countries and create a synonymous dish and that’s not easy! It’s not just like this term that people loved using in the 90’s – fusion. For me, it’s a mild trigger work. It’s not fusing 2 continents together, it’s like what we spoke about earlier. For me, the best way to articulate storytelling in a dish is to use techniques from one part of the world and ingredients from another.
The elements that make up a dish – so if you say this is a protein an Ibérico ham from Spain and I want to do it with some sort of a citrus element. Maybe you’re not using a particular orange from that region, but you’re using a lemon from a different part of the world, but it’s still an acid. It makes sense. It’s not just about shoving a square peg into a round hole to put two different parts together. That’s part of the journey to get those chefs to understand how to build and storytell through a dish. I would say that that was definitely one of the most memorable!
AM: I remember when I watched that episode and I thought, “ooo that could go really well or it could be really bad!”
CHEF NA: 100%! You really have to be able to understand ingredients.
AM: So how did you get onto Next Level Chef UK which is currently running right now, right?
CHEF NA: Yes ma’am! How did I get onto Next Level Chef UK, I just tried really hard during season 1 and I think that that is something that you just can’t fake. I genuinely in full transparency, some sleepless nights thinking about how I can be the best mentor to these chefs. When they don’t win, I take it personally. How could you not? I think that that resonated with the antithesis of the show. The ethos of the show is rooted in mentorship and it is something that I don’t take lightly, win or lose. It’s not even about losing, it’s about the opportunity for growth. I think that that really resonated with the team and they asked me if I wanted to be part of the team for the UK version and without question, I was honored. That was something that was unexpected, I didn’t anticipate that at all. It’s currently running and it was really cool for me. To be able to see how different people cook, especially, the most surprising thing for me was the range. They’re all British, so seeing the range, I was like, “what am I going to get?” I got a pretty wide range from Indian, Asian, Jamaican and traditional British cuisine. For me, I was a little nervous to see how an American chef would be received.
AM: That’s what I wondered!
CHEF NA: Girl, like learning the verbiage, but it was actually all second nature because in fine dining, a lot of French brigade style kitchens use those terms anyways. It’s just part of the European culture, like rocket for arugula or aubergine for eggplant and coriander for cilantro, so it came natural to me. I think that part of it is just the ability to communicate. At the end of the day, 2 human beings from 2 different parts of the world, we were able to connect over food and it was just some of the most enjoyable experiences that I have had being over there.
AM: To know that in a few days, we have the 2nd season that will be here. Last fall we were talking with Richard and he was like, “oh yeah the 2nd season starts right after Super Bowl Sunday!” I was so excited! How excited are you to be back here again and what are you looking forward to?
CHEF NA: Wow! Well, I can’t believe it. What am I looking forward to? You know what I love? We spent a lot of time vetting our teams prior to the launch of the show which makes sense for the progression of the show. This season, instead of episode 1 with us picking our teams, we’re just going to get straight into it!
AM: Oh wow!
CHEF NA: I know! I love that because we have now built the base and people know the concept of the show. There’s a lot more opportunity for people to follow along with the actual competition and they really love that part of it. I’m really excited to have more episodes. We’re actually coming back with more episodes this season. I don’t know if there is a better opportunity of a slot to be airing right after the Super Bowl, it’s kind of a big deal!
AM: For sure, I was talking with Richard about chili and he just slipped it in there and I was like, “wait, right after the Super Bowl?” I was like, “oh crap!”
CHEF NA: Girl, the fact that Rhianna is playing at halftime, I’m so here for it!
AM: Coming from the Midwest, I love the Super Bowl. I like to get up and watch all of the pre-coverage and hear the stories etc early in the day!
CHEF NA: Me too!
AM: By the time it’s the actual game, I’ve been up for hours and so ready for it! This is so exciting. So to be able to end all of that by watching another form of competition, with their grit and know how, that’s so cool and I’m happy to hear it.
Do you think that you will be attached to additional seasons whether here or other global versions?
NA: I don’t know! When I first met Gordon and was a guest chef on Master Chef for his finale, my parting words to those chefs were to look at the kitchen like a playing field. You have to have an athlete mindset to win. It’s not just one component or the other to excel in it. It’s a team sport and you have to approach it every day with a competitive mindset to not also ask but to demand excellence from yourself. I think that that is 1 super cool thing that will be a synonymous dialogue through all of the parts and wherever this show goes. There are so many layers to it, so many facets and to have that spot after the Super Bowl is incredible. I’m excited to be on the UK version. I’m not sure about what the future holds, but we’ll see. I’m just excited that in this moment, I can’t express enough gratitude to the FOX people, the Studio Ramsey people – it’s incredible. Words can’t explain actually how incredible it is to be on that show. If it ended tomorrow, I will feel glad about what I had to offer and if it went on for 10 years and I was part of it, that would be amazing too.
Regardless I will say that when I was looking at who was killing it in the game and it was Gordon, for me to be able to have so much time to spend time with him so far, has been a dream! I couldn’t ask for more actually.
AM: As a viewer, it looks so natural. Sometimes when you have certain kinds of pairings regardless of the show or the vertical, you can see that someone was pulling to make that happen or that an advertiser got their way and there is no connection. But when I see the 2 of you, it feels natural, and it’s a blessing because sometimes you have to make a mountain out of a mole hill and this, it’s just what it is.
CHEF NA: Girl, I’m saying! When we had the launch party in the UK, a couple of weeks ago. I wasn’t ready for it. They brought us up on stage. We were in front of the producers, culinary, press, culinary students, friends and all of these people in the building. He thanked everyone for coming and passed me the microphone and told me to say some words.
I started speaking and I was so overwhelmed with so much emotion and gratitude and started to tear up. I pushed on through my words, I said my things tearfully and after people kept coming up to me and said that they were balling their eyes out listening to me speak. To your point, it comes from a very authentic place. Point being, after I spoke, Gordon spoke and he said he was so grateful to work next to me also and said that the thing about it and the thing about this show is that it always comes back to the food. No matter what, good days or bad days. We will never not have that part. That’s what makes it the most authentic. That will never falter. Every day, we have team meetings and we think about the concept of the day. These challenges – we think about it. What would we make with this? We really treat it like it’s a kitchen and that’s where all of that comes from and it’s a root system. It’s not just produced by these freelancers and producers that come in just to try and build a storyline. It is a true chef show. So it’s cool!
AM: Since you’re always on the go, what do you do for your own self-care so that you can reset and be ready for your next adventure? You literally could be anywhere.
CHEF NA: Yeah, it’s very true. I look at it like a very big grid system and I think about it like that. I have been conditioned and I grew up playing team sports and I look at it the same way. I grew up working those 10 and 12 hours days. If I know that I am in London next week, the few days leading up, you know I might do a juice cleanse, I might workout a little extra harder so that I can sleep a little better. I might negate sleeping a little the night before so I can sleep on the plane. It’s all about managing time ultimately and being intentional about how it is being spent in terms of your time lived. I think that that is the most important thing.
I will say that 2019 was a huge growth year for me. I think before I was managing my stress differently whether it was a few glasses of wine, over indulging in food – I have turned that around drastically, where I have put that same energy into my gym routine. That for me, was a life game changer, not just for my career, but also my regular life. I sauna a lot, I ice bath, I do a lot of CrossFit – those things - functional fitness, it makes me function in my regular life. I have way more bandwidth to take on these larger feats you know! I will say that that is my main thing and how I am able to maneuver. I will be honest, I would not be able to do it alone. I have a team that keeps me on track and manages my calendar and helps me! I don’t like to come from a reactionary state, I’m a very proactive person. So that is the only way that I am able to manage such a demanding schedule. I would say that it’s a lot of self-care girl, it’s a lot of meditating and I wear my Oura ring and it tells me when I am not doing things properly and I adjust. I do IV's - I do the IV game and we talked about this last time. I do redlight therapy.
AM: Same!
CHEF NA: I get my B vitamins, I’m very very intentional with my body.
AM: Philanthropically, how do you give back to your community and those in the culinary arts?
CHEF NA: Well, I think that things like this Gala event, we’re raising a lot of funds to go towards this culinary school. I mentor outside of these hosted events as much as possible. I do a ton of private dinners all over LA and I always make it my business to hire the team - the next generation coming up and specifically, women of color if I can because it’s just good to be intentional with where the dollars are going. Knowledge is power and we know that. The more that I can show the next generation, the better. I think that it’s ultimately through mentorship as much as possible.
AM: Are there other projects that you have coming up that you are able to share?
CHEF NA: I just opened a restaurant, Native, a couple of months ago in the Delta Terminal in LAX.
AM: Nice, that I didn’t know!
CHEF NA: Really? I’m working on that project with potentially more to come! I would say that definitely if people are interested to check me out in my Hong Kong pop-up, that’s a really cool time to connect! Yeah, the restaurant in LAX at Delta Terminal is killing it right now! It is very exciting! Those are the things that I can talk about now, there are other things swirling around, but I think that it is too early to tell.
AM: What do you want your legacy to be?
CHEF NA: Wow! I love these questions! What do I want my legacy to be? You know what I want it to be? I want people to feel that they can be more vulnerable and open to conversation. I think that for me to be able to storytell through my food is a way to connect with people and to break down these walls that have been so systemically ingrained within us especially in culture and in race. I want my legacy to be the glue that bonds humanity.
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PHOTOGRAPHY CREDITS | FRONT COVER, PG 16, 20 - 23, 26 FOX | PG 19 + 9LIST STORI3S PG 48, 51 Brian Parillo | PG 25 Michael Becker/FOX | PG 29 Nyesha Arrington | PG 30 Pedro Cardoso | 9LIST STORI3S PG |
